Hints only please: compact iff bicompact

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between compactness and bicompactness in metric spaces, specifically focusing on proving that compactness implies bicompactness and vice versa. Participants are seeking hints to aid in their proofs, emphasizing a learning approach rather than seeking complete solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that compactness in a metric space can be defined in terms of sequential compactness, where every sequence has a convergent subsequence.
  • Others clarify that bicompactness is defined as every open cover admitting a finite refinement that covers the set.
  • One participant proposes two lemmas to prove that compactness implies bicompactness, specifically focusing on total boundedness and the existence of open covers.
  • A participant shares their approach to proving the first lemma by contradiction, constructing a sequence in K that lacks a convergent subsequence.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the proof provided for the first lemma, suggesting a flaw in the argument related to the definition of total boundedness.
  • One participant requests hints for proving the second lemma, indicating ongoing exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions of compactness and bicompactness, but there are differing views on the proofs and approaches to demonstrating the implications between the two concepts. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to seek hints and clarify their understanding.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for precise definitions of terms like total boundedness and the implications of the negation of the lemmas being discussed. Some mathematical steps and assumptions remain unresolved as participants work through their proofs.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in mathematical analysis, particularly those studying compactness and bicompactness in metric spaces, may find this discussion beneficial.

phoenixthoth
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I'd like hints only please. I have an analysis book and I could look up the proof myself but I'm trying to prove it myself as an exercise; so giving the full proof would be redundant as well as counterproductive to my own learning.

X is a metric space.

In this other book, K is compact iff every sequence in K has a convergent subsequence. I know that topologically, this is not the standard definition of compact; some authors would call this sequentially compact.

K is bicompact if every open cover of K admits a finite refinement that also covers K. This is how compactness is usually defined as far as I knew.

Hints on how compact implies bicompact and bicompact implies compact would be very much appreciated.

Right now, I'm working on compact implies bicompact so that is the current priority. I don't need hints on the other direction at this time since I haven't tried it.

A general hint like "prove the contrapositive" or "use contradiction" might be helpful though I've tried the first of the two already. I suppose as I await a reply, I'll try contradiction...

Thanks!
 
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Did you mean "K is a metric space"?
 
Sorry for the oversight. I meant that X is a metric space and that K is a subset of X.
 
phoenixthoth said:
I'd like hints only please. I have an analysis book and I could look up the proof myself but I'm trying to prove it myself as an exercise; so giving the full proof would be redundant as well as counterproductive to my own learning.

X is a metric space.

In this other book, K is compact iff every sequence in K has a convergent subsequence. I know that topologically, this is not the standard definition of compact; some authors would call this sequentially compact.

K is bicompact if every open cover of K admits a finite refinement that also covers K. This is how compactness is usually defined as far as I knew.

Hints on how compact implies bicompact and bicompact implies compact would be very much appreciated.

Right now, I'm working on compact implies bicompact so that is the current priority. I don't need hints on the other direction at this time since I haven't tried it.

A general hint like "prove the contrapositive" or "use contradiction" might be helpful though I've tried the first of the two already. I suppose as I await a reply, I'll try contradiction...

Thanks!

I'll give you 2 lemmas to prove first:

1. If K is (sequentially) compact, then K is totally bounded.
(A set is called totally bounded, if for any e>0, there exist a finite set [tex]\{x_{k}\}\in{K}[/tex] such that K is covered by the union of disks [tex]D(x_{k},e)[/tex])
2.Let [tex]\{U_{i}\}[/tex] be an open cover of K.
Then there exist r>0, such that for any [tex]y\in{K}[/tex], the open disk
D(y,r) is contained in some [tex]U_{i}[/tex]

(I thought 2. was shockingly strong the first time I saw it..)

Proof by contradiction..
 
Last edited:
Thank you so much. I went ahead and proved that compact --> bicompact using the two lemmas; now I'm working on proving the first lemma. I'm sort of stuck on it though I haven't tried everything yet. In the next day or two, I may ask for a hint on how to prove lemma 1. I'm now resorting to proving it with contradiction. I want to exhibit a sequence with no convergent subsequence... Still working on it. Thanks again.
 
Good luck!
I guess you've already figured out how the two lemmas together will prove your main objective..
 
How does this look for a proof of the first lemma?

We will show that if [tex]K[/tex] is not totally bounded then [tex]K[/tex] is not compact by constructing a sequence in [tex]K[/tex] that has no convergent subsequence. Let [tex]x_{1}[/tex] be any element of [tex]K[/tex]. Note that since [tex]K[/tex] is not totally bounded, [tex]K[/tex] is not covered by [tex]B_{1}\left( x_{1}\right)[/tex]. So let [tex]x_{2}\in K\backslash B_{1}\left( x_{1}\right)[/tex]. Likewise, [tex]K[/tex] is not covered by [tex]B_{1}\left( x_{1}\right) \cup B_{2}\left( x_{2}\right)[/tex]. For [tex]n>2[/tex] let [tex]x_{n}\in K\backslash \bigcup_{i=1}^{n-1}B_{1}\left( x_{i}\right)[/tex]. [tex]x_{n}[/tex] exists because if [tex]K[/tex] is covered by [tex]\bigcup_{i=1}^{n-1}B_{1}\left( x_{i}\right)[/tex], it would be totally bounded. The sequence [tex]\left\{ x_{i}\right\}[/tex] has no convergent subsequence because for all (unequal) [tex]i,j[/tex], [tex]d\left( x_{i},x_{j}\right) >1[/tex] and if there were an increasing function [tex]\tau :Z^{+}\rightarrow Z^{+}[/tex] such that there is an [tex]I\in Z^{+}[/tex] such that if [tex]i\geq I[/tex], then [tex]d\left( x_{\tau \left( i\right) },x\right) <1/2[/tex] for some [tex]x\in X[/tex]. That would imply that [tex]d\left( x_{\tau \left( I\right) },x_{\tau \left( I+1\right) }\right) \leq d\left( x_{\tau \left( I\right) },x\right) +d\left( x,x_{\tau \left( I+1\right) }\right) <1[/tex] when we know that [tex]d\left( x_{\tau \left( I\right) },x_{\tau \left( I+1\right) }\right) >1[/tex]. Therefore [tex]K[/tex] is not compact as we have exhibited a sequence with no convergent subsequence.
 
Is [tex]B_{1}[/tex] a ball with radius 1?
If so, your argument is (slightly) flawed:
The negation is:
There exist some e>0 such that K cannot be covered by finitely many balls of radius e.
(As far as I can see, you can merely substitute e for 1 in your argument to get the proof)
 
Cool deal. Now I'm working on the second lemma...
 
  • #10
Could I have a hint for the second lemma? Thanks in advance.
 
  • #11
The negation is:
For every r>0, there exist some y in K, such that the disk D(y,r) is not (fully) contained in any Ui
 

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