Physics Forums

Physics Forums (http://www.physicsforums.com/index.php)
-   Current Events (http://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   How true/accurate is Gasland (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=411870)

CAC1001 Jun23-10 04:58 AM

how true/accurate is Gasland
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1A...layer_embedded

Was wondering if anyone knows how true/accurate this is or not? Documentaries like this can reveal some very important things I know, however they also can present blatant lies and distortions depending on the agenda of the filmmaker.

I figured I would post this in this forum since an issue like this obviously relates to policymaking.

Pengwuino Jul19-11 03:26 AM

Re: Gasland
 
I know I'm kinda necroposting this but it's only been a year and I'm interested!

Has anyone seen this film? Is it factual or mainly nonsense? A friend of mine is interested and says he wants to know if it's true that a large majority of Colorado's drinking water is now contaminated and undrinkable. So does anyone know anything about this documtnary?

SixNein Jul19-11 07:37 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by Pengwuino (Post 3410461)
I know I'm kinda necroposting this but it's only been a year and I'm interested!

Has anyone seen this film? Is it factual or mainly nonsense? A friend of mine is interested and says he wants to know if it's true that a large majority of Colorado's drinking water is now contaminated and undrinkable. So does anyone know anything about this documtnary?

I don't know, but I do know I love your signature.

ThomasT Jul20-11 04:56 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by Pengwuino (Post 3410461)
I know I'm kinda necroposting this but it's only been a year and I'm interested!

Has anyone seen this film? Is it factual or mainly nonsense? A friend of mine is interested and says he wants to know if it's true that a large majority of Colorado's drinking water is now contaminated and undrinkable. So does anyone know anything about this documtnary?

Your query piqued my interest so I watched as much of the documentary as I had time to do. I don't know if all it's claims are true, or if a large majority of Colorado's drinking water is contaminated and undrinkable, and, if so, what caused that.

It does seem logical to assume that underground water would mix somewhat with both the fracking fluids and the natural gas that's released as a result of fracking. But this is a question for geologists.

I'm not really concerned about it because virtually all of my time is spent either in Florida or Connecticut, neither of which are affected by fracking, as far as I know. However, if you're in Pennsylvania, then it might be an issue since there are apparently about 35K natural gas wells in that state. And there are quite a few other states with wells numbering in the thousands.

Below are some links (I Googled, "gasland debunked"), pro and con regarding the documentary:

http://www.kioga.org/communications/...unked.pdf/view

http://www.damascuscitizens.org/Affirming-GASLAND.pdf

http://www.bseec.org/content/debunking-gasland

http://txsharon.blogspot.com/2010/06...-debunked.html

http://gaslandthemovie.com/

mheslep Jul23-11 01:26 PM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by CAC1001 (Post 2772406)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZe1A...layer_embedded

Was wondering if anyone knows how true/accurate this is or not? Documentaries like this can reveal some very important things I know, however they also can present blatant lies and distortions depending on the agenda of the filmmaker.

I figured I would post this in this forum since an issue like this obviously relates to policymaking.

This source seems authoritative, the State Of Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: the film is error ridden and fraudulent.

http://cogcc.state.co.us/library/GASLAND%20DOC.pdf
Quote:

Quote by COGCC
Because an informed public debate on hydraulic fracturing depends on accurate information, the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Commission (COGCC) would like to correct several errors in the film’s portrayal of the Colorado incidents. ...

This one is unforgivable for a documentary on natural gas drilling:
Quote:

Quote by COGCC
...Gasland incorrectly attributes several cases of water well contamination in
Colorado to oil and gas development when our investigations determined that the wells in
question contained biogenic methane that is not attributable to such development.

In particular the guy shown in the trailer at ~2:20 lighting off his tap water was shown to be burning naturally leaking shallow (biogenic) gas, not fract. gas.

I thought there was some kind of civil law prevention of this kind of garbage? For instance, if I 'grabbed my camera' and 'traveled across the country' making up bogus claims about (say) meat w/ mad cow disease or the dangers of air travel I assumed I could be deservedly sued.

apeiron Jul25-11 02:52 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by CAC1001 (Post 2772406)
I figured I would post this in this forum since an issue like this obviously relates to policymaking.

The subject is a matter for study....
http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwate...ring/index.cfm

Quote:

Contaminants of concern to drinking water include fracturing fluid chemicals and degradation products and naturally occurring materials in the geologic formation (e.g. metals, radionuclides) that are mobilized and brought to the surface during the hydraulic fracturing process.
There are plenty of people worried...
http://www.skynews.com.au/national/a...id=639652&vId=

Quote:

Coal seam gas mining can cause cancer and harm unborn children, a group of medical experts have warned.
The six experts, who include a Queensland government epidemiologist, say the state's ban on the use of cancer-causing chemicals collectively known as BTEX in CSG mining doesn't protect the community from health risks.
BTEX chemicals have been used in hydraulic fracturing, known as fracking, in the United States and other parts of the world to crack the coal seams and extract the natural gas.
But in a submission to a Senate inquiry into CSG impacts, which is sitting in Queensland this week, the microbiology and disease experts say BTEX exists in the coal seams.

'BTEX chemicals (benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene) are frequently found together in petroleum compounds,' the submission says. They are in a class of chemicals known as volatile organic compounds which easily vaporise so people can be exposed through drinking water, bathing or breathing in vapour.
The French have banned fracking...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/bl...ing-2011-06-30

Quote:

The French parliament voted on June 30 to ban the controversial technique for extracting natural gas from shale rock deposits known as hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, the web sites of Le Monde and other French media reported.
But probably most conclusive is Halliburton thinks there's no problem. :smile:

Pengwuino Jul25-11 03:02 AM

Re: Gasland
 
The public's opinion and government opinions pretty much have as much weight for me as the people trying to profit off of it. I need to take some time to read the sources posted here.

ThomasT Jul25-11 07:07 PM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by mheslep (Post 3417871)
I thought there was some kind of civil law prevention of this kind of garbage? For instance, if I 'grabbed my camera' and 'traveled across the country' making up bogus claims about (say) meat w/ mad cow disease or the dangers of air travel I assumed I could be deservedly sued.

Isn't the documentary maker, Josh Fox, being sued by drillers and frackers and Halliburton and the sorts of authoritative governmental agencies that you cited?

Quote:

Quote by apeiron
But probably most conclusive is Halliburton thinks there's no problem. :smile:

Well, definitely compelling at least. :smile:

apeiron Jul25-11 07:33 PM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by ThomasT (Post 3421298)
Isn't the documentary maker, Josh Fox, being sued by drillers and frackers and Halliburton and the sorts of authoritative governmental agencies that you cited?

Googling did not produce any evidence that Fox is being sued.

There is an industry put-up lobby group as you might expect...
http://www.energyindepth.org/

Quote:

Following up on the decision this week by state legislators in New Jersey to approve legislation seeking an outright ban on the responsible deployment of hydraulic fracturing as a means of harvesting clean-burning, job-creating natural gas, Energy In Depth sent a detailed letter to Gov. Chris Christie today highlighting several important facts about the technology, along with an attachment capturing comments and insights from more than a dozen state environmental regulators from both parties testifying to the safety and efficiency of fracturing.
And Josh Fox has answered his critics thus...
http://1trickpony.cachefly.net/gas/p..._Sept_2010.pdf

Quote:

I am issuing the following point-by-point rebuttal of their claims, not because I feel obligated to address what are clearly falsehoods and smear tactics, but to show the depth of the industry’s assault on the truth and to point out their obfuscations, misleading spin on information, and attempts to shut down questions about their practices.

Pengwuino Aug18-11 04:51 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Wow my friend is totally convinced there's a worldwide conspiracy to cover up entire states water supplies being contaminated and they can't drink the water anymore. He tells me it's not his job to show proof this is happening, it's my job to show it's not happening, and he's getting more and more annoying about it. And I really don't have time to learn about a whole subject just to teach him about it.... sigh.

mheslep Aug18-11 11:30 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by Pengwuino (Post 3457282)
Wow my friend is totally convinced there's a worldwide conspiracy to cover up entire states water supplies being contaminated and they can't drink the water anymore. He tells me it's not his job to show proof this is happening, it's my job to show it's not happening, and he's getting more and more annoying about it. And I really don't have time to learn about a whole subject just to teach him about it.... sigh.

Uh oh. Your friend's not a in charge of SAC base I hope?
http://www.classicalvalues.com/JackT.jpg

General Ripper:
Quote:

Do you realize that [flouridation|fracking contamination] is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous [communist|big oil-gas] plot we have ever had to face?'"
"I can no longer sit back and allow [communist|big oil-gas] infiltration, [communist|big oil-gas]indoctrination, [communist|big oil-gas] subversion and the international [communist|big oil-gas] conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids."

Greg Bernhardt Jan31-12 12:26 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Power necro'd! Just finished watching this. Junk or truth?

Oltz Jan31-12 07:38 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Mostly Junk and Hype.

Disclosure I work in the marcellus my degree is environmental geology.

ThomasT Jan31-12 11:32 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by Greg Bernhardt (Post 3736929)
Power necro'd! Just finished watching this. Junk or truth?

Well, one has to skeptical about the veracity of any documentary. There are dangers involved in fracking. But, apparently, those dangers can be adequately addressed with existing technology. Whether they will, always, be adequately addressed is another question. Whether fracking will prove to be a net positive or negative remains to be determined and any assessment will depend on what factors are accentuated.

mheslep Jan31-12 11:56 AM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by Greg Bernhardt (Post 3736929)
Power necro'd! Just finished watching this. Junk or truth?

Junk.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...71&postcount=5

mheslep Feb1-12 10:51 PM

Re: Gasland
 
I see the author / filmmaker of Gasland was arrested in a Congressional meeting room. He was apparently trying to set up and film, but couldn't be bothered with getting press credentials and refused to turn his camera off when asked.

ThomasT Feb1-12 10:55 PM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by mheslep (Post 3740655)
I see the author / filmmaker of Gasland was arrested in a Congressional meeting room. He was apparently trying to set up and film, but couldn't be bothered with getting press credentials and refused to turn his camera off when asked.

So who's the culprit there? A citizen for attempting to film what, imho, should be a public discussion, or the government for preventing him from doing so?

Whether large scale fracking can be entirely safely done is an unanswered question. What I don't like is what I see as industry and government attempts to bypass necessary safety requirements in the interest of projected monetary profits.

This is a scenario that's been repeated ad nauseum in America.

mheslep Feb1-12 11:46 PM

Re: Gasland
 
Quote:

Quote by ThomasT (Post 3740662)
So who's the culprit there?

Fox, the filmmaker.
Quote:

A citizen for attempting to film what, imho, should be a public discussion, or the government for preventing him from doing so?
It is a public discussion, open the public, but apparently there is simple rule that says if you want to enter the limited space of a conference room with a camera tripod and microphones and an HBO film crew you have get permission in advance. Fox did not. Why do you think that is?

Quote:

Whether large scale fracking can be entirely safely done is an unanswered question. What I don't like is what I see as industry and government attempts to bypass necessary safety requirements in the interest of projected monetary profits.
What makes you think anything has been bypassed?

EPA Proposes New Rules on Emissions Released by Fracking
EPA Revisiting, Announces Gaps in Dimock, PA Water Data‎
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/2778...k-pa-water.htm
Pennsylvania's Fracking Program Gets Mostly High Marks in Independent Review
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/...94130120100928
EPA takes new look at gas drilling, water issues
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science...fracking_N.htm
Colorado oil and gas rules score high in outside review
http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...core-high.html


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014 Physics Forums