How Does Differentiation Relate to Limits and Approximations?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between differentiation, limits, and approximations in the context of multivariable calculus. Participants explore the definition of partial derivatives and their connection to Taylor expansions, as well as the graphical interpretation of differentials and variations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the equivalence of the limit definition of partial derivatives and their approximation using small variations. There is a request for clarification on the meaning and calculation of \Delta x_k, as well as the significance of Legendre transformations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the definitions and graphical interpretations of partial derivatives and Taylor expansions. Others have suggested reading additional resources for deeper understanding. The discussion includes multiple interpretations and attempts to clarify concepts without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants express the need for foundational knowledge in calculus, particularly in multiple variables, to fully grasp the concepts being discussed. There are references to specific applications in physics, such as thermodynamics, which may require the use of total differentials.

Phymath
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I don't understand how
[tex]\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x_k}}(\vec{a}) = \lim_{\epsilon\rightarrow 0} \frac{f(a_1,...,a_k+\epsilon,...,a_n)-f(a_1,...,a_k,...,a_n)}{\epsilon}[/tex]
can be equal to...
[tex]\Delta_k f = f(a_1,...,a_k + \epsilon,...,a_n)-f(a_1,...,a_k,...,a_n) \approx \Delta x_k \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x_k}}[/tex]
and why is it approximately?

what does [tex]\Delta x_k[/tex] really repersent? graphiclly and with an example.

why is

[tex]df = \sum \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x_i}} dx_i[/tex]
using [tex]dx_i[/tex] what does that graphicly represent? and what is Legendre transformation and what is its significance. Please try to explain (calc I-III, Linear algebra background)
 
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U messed up the tex code... :rolleyes:

At the first,it's simply the partial derivative's definition,though improperly written,while at the second,it's simply the first term (linear in differentials) of the Taylor expansion of a function of multiple variables.

Graphically,it's difficult to describe in words.Imagine a surface.The partial derivative wrt "x" at a point on the surface is nothing else but the tangent of the angle made by a tangent line in that point to the curve delimited by the Oxz plane and the surface and the Ox axis...Really disgusting...

Legendre transformations are fundamental in physics,yet a description of them cannot be given within a couple of lines.

Daniel.
 
I don't know what the Taylor expanision of a function of multiple variables means, can u elaborate? Still what is [tex]\Delta x_k[/tex] how do u calculate that?
 
Phymath said:
I don't know what the Taylor expanision of a function of multiple variables means, can u elaborate? Still what is [tex]\Delta x_k[/tex] how do u calculate that?



Then i'll have to advise you to read a calculus book on multiple variable calculus,where I'm sure you're going to find the Taylor series explained much better than i'd succed if i were to try to.
Those delta's are small variations,you do not calculate them by any mean,they're an analogus for the differentials.

Da
 
i see so is there an example u can give me that uses the total differential or where I'd need to? Such as in phyiscs...
 
Thermodynamics:
[tex]dS= \frac{dU}{T}+pdV+\mu dN+...[/tex]

[tex]dS=(\frac{\partial S}{\partial U})_{V,N,...} dU +(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V})_{U,N,...} dV+(\frac{\partial S}{\partial N})_{U,V,...} dN+...[/tex]

Daniel.
 
Phymath said:
I don't understand how
[tex]\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x_k}}(\vec{a}) = \lim_{\epsilon\rightarrow 0} \frac{f(a_1,...,a_k+\epsilon,...,a_n)-f(a_1,...,a_k,...,a_n)}{\epsilon}[/tex]
can be equal to...
[tex]\Delta_k f = f(a_1,...,a_k + \epsilon,...,a_n)-f(a_1,...,a_k,...,a_n) \approx \Delta x_k \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x_k}}[/tex]
and why is it approximately?
I`ll take the singe variable case, because the reasoning is similar.

[tex]\frac{d}{dx}f(x)=\lim_{h \to 0} \frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}=f'(x)[/tex]

which means, that for any [itex]\epsilon>0[/itex] we can find a [itex]\delta[/itex], such that:
[tex]|h|<\delta \Rightarrow \left|\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h}-f'(x)\right|<\epsilon[/tex].

So if we make h small enough, it will be close enough to f'(x). Therefore, for small h:
[tex]\frac{f(x+h)-f(x)}{h} \approx f'(x)[/tex]
or
[tex]f(x+h)-f(x) \approx hf'(x)[/tex]

The h in this case is what the [itex]\Delta x_k[/itex] represents in your multivariable case.
 
i see good explanation! thanks
 

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