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Mar3-12, 01:43 PM
P: 399
Hi sophiecentaur, you should get this debate and what I am getting at if you read 8, you too D.

Quote Quote by sophiecentaur View Post
You so much do not believe in the ideas of conventional Physics, Wayne, that you even refuse to use the correct terminology.
Please could you try and answer my questions, I am not interested in a mocking match, and you not answering seems to show you are unsure.

You a D. have dismissed a real World EMG test, but you cannot say why ??? You seem to be against RMS way, but cannot say why ??

Do you agree that a muscle that if I do 10 repetitions at 1/1 = 20 seconds, and 1 repetition at 1/1 = 2 seconds. That the 10 repetitions will use more overall muscle force, more total muscle force, longer muscle force ??? If and when you and D. understand this question, you will then understand my question, as from what you and D. say, I am sure you donít understand. [b]As I fail faster in the faster repetitions, does that not tell you anything ???

I 100 physics had a debate, and did extensive tests, and all agreed I was right, would you be able to say I was right, or are you too deep in ???

Do you see where/why average force means nothing in this debate ??? If you do 1 repetition at any speed, say 1/1, thatís 1 second up and 1 second down, you will get the same average force if you do 1 repetition or a 100 repetitions. So average will not tell us anything, or will it ???

1 repetition = 100 force up and 60 force down, 100 + 60 = 160/1 = 160, average force = 160.
100 repetitions, 100 x 100 = 10000, 100 x 60 = 6000, 10000 + 6000 = 16000/100 = 160.

Some the average force is the same, BUT we all know that the doing the 100 repetitions is going to use more muscle force and put more tension on the muscles

Do you see what I mean ???

Do you and D. think that I fail faster when doing the faster repetitions because there is less force output by the muscles, and less tension on the muscles ??? If so please say and explain why you think that or other, the point is you do fail 50% faster, what both use 80% on the repetitions, thus there can ONLY be ONE reason for this, you produce for force in the same time frame doing the faster repetitions, putting more tension on the muscles, making the muscles fail faster, if you do not think this, please say why ???

You use more energy in the faster, why ??? As immediately you move faster, using more accelerations using more force, you use more energy, are you saying you use more energy because you donít use more force ???

You move the weight 6 times further in the same time frame, you have to use more force to move a weight further in the same time frame, if not, how do you move the weight further if by not using more force/accelerations ???

Quote Quote by sophiecentaur View Post
You seem to ignore the fact that everyone agrees that the Maximum force for fast lifts must be higher because of the acceleration - that's proper Physics.
I am not ignorant to that, I know it, and I know everyone else knows it, this is not the debate.

Let me try and explain again.

We are the exact same strength, we are moving 80% of our 1RM, {Repetition Maximum} We are both going to move this weight until momentary muscular failure, meaning we are going to move the weight until we cannot lift it again.

I use my 100% maximum force ALL the time, which is a 100 pounds, you on the other hand only use 80% of your force all the time.

I hit momentary muscular failure about 50% faster than you do, because I am using 100%, but you are not using 100% you are using 80% yes 80%, and using 80% consistently for the exact same time as me moving the weights, {lets cal that 30 seconds} HOW can you think or claim that you ONLY using 80% consistently for the same time frame as I using 100% consistently, will use the same overall or total force output ??? Or will make the same momentum/movement change ???

I use 100% force for 30 seconds.

You use 80% force for 30 seconds.

How can using 80% of force for 30 seconds be the same as using 100 force for 30 seconds ??? Please state why.

Quote Quote by sophiecentaur View Post
Just imagine - to change tack- that you had replaced your arms with a strong pair of springs of the appropriate stiffness. If you lifted the weights to your normal lift height and then let go, the weights would go down and up and down and up for a long time until friction became apparent. No work done at all if you recover the weights when they are at the top of their bounce. That's Physics. It's true and it just doesn't represent a good model of your muscles.
If you used a stiffer spring, the oscillations would be at a faster rate or, for a less stiff spring, the oscillations would be at a slower rate. No difference, in any of the cases, with the energy involved (total = zero).
Not sure what you mean there ??? Or are getting at, as I HAVE to use force and energy on the way down, or lowering the weight as well as lifting.

Quote Quote by sophiecentaur View Post
I'm still waiting for your detailed reply about Total Speed.
I answered that, is a different quantity, but if you want I will come up with a better one, please try and answer 8, and the rest, please you too D. and anyone else here.