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nonlinear first order DE

 
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Jul10-08, 10:01 AM   #1
 

nonlinear first order DE


Hello:
I discovered this forum while looking for advice on solving a first order nonlinear differential equation.
The equation I am trying to solve is

dy/dx=(3ay+3bx^2y^2)/(3x-bx^3y)

a and b are constants. The equation is not exact, nor is it homogeneous. I have failed to separate the variables by factoring. So the usual methods don't work.
Any help or advice will be appreciated.
 
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Jul10-08, 04:37 PM   #2
 
Are you sure it isn't homogeneous?
 
Jul10-08, 05:05 PM   #3
 
Quote by jeffreydk View Post
Are you sure it isn't homogeneous?
Hi Jeffrey
The equation is not homogeneous. See if you can find a work around.
Thanks
 
Jul10-08, 05:52 PM   #4
 
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Smile

nonlinear first order DE


Quote by utterfly View Post
dy/dx=(3ay+3bx^2y^2)/(3x-bx^3y)
Hi utterfly! Welcome to PF!

(are you sure it isn't (3ax-bx^3y) on the bottom? anyway …)

Hint: first, factor it out as much as you can, then make the obvious substitution.
 
Jul11-08, 09:04 AM   #5
 
Quote by tiny-tim View Post
Hi utterfly! Welcome to PF!

(are you sure it isn't (3ax-bx^3y) on the bottom? anyway …)

Hint: first, factor it out as much as you can, then make the obvious substitution.
Hello tiny-tim:
It is 3x and not 3ax.
I am going to try an iterative approach. Nothing else seems to work.
Thanks
 
Jul11-08, 09:10 AM   #6
 
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Factor it out first!
 
Jul11-08, 05:45 PM   #7
 
Quote by tiny-tim View Post
Factor it out first!
Hi tiny-tim
I have tried factoring the equation - but no luck!
Can you help with the factoring?
Thanks
 
Jul11-08, 06:14 PM   #8
 
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Quote by utterfly View Post
Hi tiny-tim
I have tried factoring the equation - but no luck!
Can you help with the factoring?
Thanks
dy/dx = (3ay + 3bx2y2)/(3x - bx3y)

= (3y/x)(a + bx2y)/(3 - bx2y)

What's difficult about that?

Now make the obvious substitution …
 
Jul12-08, 08:29 AM   #9
 
Quote by tiny-tim View Post
dy/dx = (3ay + 3bx2y2)/(3x - bx3y)

= (3y/x)(a + bx2y)/(3 - bx2y)

What's difficult about that?

Now make the obvious substitution …
Yes, you can even make it simpler by dividing through by x^2. The terms remaining have both variables. Separation of variables has not been successful.
So substitution will not help.
 
Jul12-08, 10:22 AM   #10
 
I think he meant to substitute new variable x^2 y(x) = f(x) and then separation of variables x and f works.
 
Jul12-08, 12:24 PM   #11
 
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Quote by smallphi View Post
I think he meant to substitute new variable x^2 y(x) = f(x) and then separation of variables x and f works.
Hi smallphi!

Exactly!

(btw, have you noticed the new x2 and x2 tags on the Reply to thread page? )
Quote by utterfly View Post
Yes, you can even make it simpler by dividing through by x^2.
Not what I call simpler.
The terms remaining have both variables. Separation of variables has not been successful.
Simplification is always the correct first step.

But obviously it doesn't actually solve the problem.

In hindsight, what part of "Now make the obvious substitution" did you not think worth trying?

Anyway, as smallphi suggests, put z = x2y … what is dz/dx?
 
Jul12-08, 12:45 PM   #12
 
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To give you a few further hints:
xy=z/x, and y/x=z/(x^3).
 
Jul12-08, 05:03 PM   #13
 
I tried the substitution; I do get a result even if looks horrible!
I will repeat the calculation, just to make sure.
Thanks guys!
 
Jul12-08, 07:03 PM   #14
 
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Quote by utterfly View Post
I tried the substitution; I do get a result even if looks horrible!
Hi utterfly!

It shouldn't look horrible.

What dz/dx did you get?
 
Jul13-08, 08:16 AM   #15
 
Quote by tiny-tim View Post
Hi utterfly!

It shouldn't look horrible.

What dz/dx did you get?
Hi tiny-tim
This is what I get

dz/dx=(z/x)((3a+b)+z(3-2b)/(3-bz))

Solving for z gives a bunch of ln terms.
 
Jul13-08, 09:01 AM   #16
 
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Quote by utterfly View Post
This is what I get

dz/dx=(z/x)((3a+b)+z(3-2b)/(3-bz))
hmm … that's not what I get.
Solving for z gives a bunch of ln terms.
If you mean a sum of ln terms, then just antilog the whole thing, and you'll get a neat product of terms, without logs.
 
Jul13-08, 10:09 AM   #17
 
Quote by tiny-tim View Post
hmm … that's not what I get.


If you mean a sum of ln terms, then just antilog the whole thing, and you'll get a neat product of terms, without logs.
That is true. Taking anti-logs gives the horrible expression I was referring to.
But, it is a solution!
If you have a simpler expression I would like to see it.
Much appreciate your interest and effort.
 
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