Some thoughts on society.

I guess this is what you wanted me to respond to.

1. I'm not suggesting we go back to manual labor. I'm saying we use technology to its fullest potential and alleviate humans of physical labor. In the future I don't imagine very many will work. I imagine people will do whatever they want, and have whatever they want with no obligation to perform any kind of servitude.

2. Things would be equal because every one has access to everything. It is fair. Everyone gets a house, everyone gets everything. You can't steal anything, because everything is abundant, if you stole my tv I'd get another one for free.

3. Basically, everything is abundant, without the need for anyone to work. Most people would go to school and indugle in the arts and music. They would travel. They may even innovate and make better products for our society, which if it was determined by the scientific method that they new product was better, it would immediately be put into production and the production of the older one would stop.

4. Houses could constructed using autmation as well, people could order houses that suit their needs. Its all Technical problems and therefore can be solved with technical solutions. You should look into Jacque Fresco. He is a very intelligent individual.

There would be no social stratification simply because everything is made available to everyone.

These are not my own ideas, I just happen to agree with them. They were produced by the Zeitgeist movement, as you moderators know who closed my other thread for blasphemy i suppose. I wanted to discuss these ideas, because I feel they are worth our thoughts.

If you really want to dive into these ideas, in a much more in depth manner I suggest you watch this video. Its not controversial in the least like the first Zeitgeist film was. It simply covers the things we have been talking about.

Zeitgeist movement orientation video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87043163636261

If you want to close this thread go ahead, but I feel that would be extreme, since we've been able to conversate on this for so long, I don't think it qualifies as crack pottery.

I think the Zeitgeist films started out very controversial, but they have evolved into something very beneficial for society and i suggest you look into the video above or the site itself. Even the maker of the films has stated he is moving away from conspiratorial notions and more towards ways to make society better.

The truth is the current socio-economic system is out of date. It is not only ineffective at distributing goods and services, but it has now paralyzed society with debt.

It is tough to consider someone who didn't have a job before and now has a job to be "exploited". More to the point, you are basically saying that we have "exploited" the 3rd world into a halving of their poverty rate over the past 20 years! That's some great exploitation!
I make the same choice every morning. So what?

zwest135

To test your basic conceptual theory, perhaps you should begin with a study of the Amish way of life...or cosider moving to a Cuban plantation...or perhaps try your hand at independently farming and bartering for goods/services for few years and report back with your findings?

zwest135

To test your basic conceptual theory, perhaps you should begin with a study of the Amish way of life...or cosider moving to a Cuban plantation...or perhaps try your hand at independently farming and bartering for goods/services for few years and report back with your findings?

So, what are the incentives to create/maintain such efficiency in this plan. And what about the cutting edge things that aren't so cheap yet, that require new invention and innovation. Like the internet was before it existed. Where are the incentives for improvement? Are you assuming that these things just happen? Or are you assuming that people will be satisfied with a stagnant economy and not desire anything more?

I certainly hope that the poverty rates are going down because right now its sad.

I guess this is what you wanted me to respond to.

1. I'm not suggesting we go back to manual labor. I'm saying we use technology to its fullest potential and alleviate humans of physical labor. In the future I don't imagine very many will work. I imagine people will do whatever they want, and have whatever they want with no obligation to perform any kind of servitude.

2. Things would be equal because every one has access to everything. It is fair. Everyone gets a house, everyone gets everything. You can't steal anything, because everything is abundant, if you stole my tv I'd get another one for free.

3. Basically, everything is abundant, without the need for anyone to work. Most people would go to school and indugle in the arts and music. They would travel. They may even innovate and make better products for our society, which if it was determined by the scientific method that they new product was better, it would immediately be put into production and the production of the older one would stop.

4. Houses could constructed using autmation as well, people could order houses that suit their needs. Its all Technical problems and therefore can be solved with technical solutions. You should look into Jacque Fresco. He is a very intelligent individual.

There would be no social stratification simply because everything is made available to everyone.

These are not my own ideas, I just happen to agree with them. They were produced by the Zeitgeist movement, as you moderators know who closed my other thread for blasphemy i suppose. I wanted to discuss these ideas, because I feel they are worth our thoughts.

If you really want to dive into these ideas, in a much more in depth manner I suggest you watch this video. Its not controversial in the least like the first Zeitgeist film was. It simply covers the things we have been talking about.

Zeitgeist movement orientation video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87043163636261

If you want to close this thread go ahead, but I feel that would be extreme, since we've been able to conversate on this for so long, I don't think it qualifies as crack pottery.

I think the Zeitgeist films started out very controversial, but they have evolved into something very beneficial for society and i suggest you look into the video above or the site itself. Even the maker of the films has stated he is moving away from conspiratorial notions and more towards ways to make society better.

The truth is the current socio-economic system is out of date. It is not only ineffective at distributing goods and services, but it has now paralyzed society with debt.

2. Things would be equal because every one has access to everything. It is fair. Everyone gets a house, everyone gets everything. You can't steal anything, because everything is abundant, if you stole my tv I'd get another one for free.

3. Basically, everything is abundant, without the need for anyone to work. Most people would go to school and indugle in the arts and music. They would travel. They may even innovate and make better products for our society, which if it was determined by the scientific method that they new product was better, it would immediately be put into production and the production of the older one would stop.

Sad compared to what. Compared to any historical standard of living that has ever existed in the history of the human race?

Or compared to some ideal that has never existed anywhere?

There has always been relative poverty. ie there are some that have less than average. But you would have to admit that the people you are calling "exploited" have a better standard of living than 99.999 percent of humans that have ever lived on the planet. Assuming you realize how everyone except kings and rare others have lived throughout human history.

Why do you people insist I'm promoting amish style or hard labor life style. Im simply saying we should use technology to provide us with an abundance of everything without money!

This is not going to happen over night.

How are we going to deal with technological unemployment, when even the most advanced products are created by automation? No one talks about this issue but it is very real.

Oy vey.

Do not not see how unrealistic this is? Those people are a bunch of crackpots.

There is so much wrong and you don't seem to understand what's wrong.

Oh dear.

Why can't we provide for everyone? Its just a technical issue is it not.

The only problem I could possibly see is that the technology is not available today. Which is very possible. I've said it over and over again. Maybe not today, but this could be done in the future.

The incentive will be looking at what you have provided to you and deciding its not sufficient. So you innovate something better, and if it is scientifically proven that it is better, it goes into production and everyone gets what you designed.

You guys understand that everything in society can be optimized right? There can also be different versions, however, they would be the best produced available. We have so many options in our society because of the monetary system. We often trade efficency for less work.

Everything should be looked at as a technical problem in society. For example: You would not solve the immigration problem with laws and restrictions. That is insuffiecient. You would solve it by designing a system that can provide for and support all the incoming poeple.

Society has got to elevate man to his highest potential. We have got to design our society to work for people, and provide for people with technology.

You know starvation is a big problem in our world right? You know alot of people don't have fresh water? I think alot of the western world is very ignorant to how bad things are. I mean 40% of the world is living under $2 a day. That sounds pretty bad to me. The middle east, africa and asia are often in states of conflict and and civil wars because they are in such desperate situations. They would not be fighting if they had the standard of living that europe and america have.

You know starvation is a big problem in our world right? You know alot of people don't have fresh water? I think alot of the western world is very ignorant to how bad things are. I mean 40% of the world is living under $2 a day. That sounds pretty bad to me. The middle east, africa and asia are often in states of conflict and and civil wars because they are in such desperate situations. They would not be fighting if they had the standard of living that europe and america have.