Charge electric car from dryer plug?

sophiecentaur

Hang on a bit. Just changing the Law isn't suddenly going to magic a power distribution network that can handle everyone's extra vehicle charging loads. (Looking at the future, when 'everyone' is electric.)
Just think of the huge energy distribution system represented by the supplies to petrol stations and replacing a significant proportion of that with power via electrical cables. It's do-able, of course, but it will require a huge capital investment and needs some serious planning to handle peak loads. This will be particularly true when these new fast charging batteries start to come on stream and everyone demands a 2 minute top-up, whether at home or at the station down the road.

mheslep

The energy distribution system is already in place.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1211221149.htm


Yes that is about power and at that level I agree not only is it not available now, it is never going to happen. Ubiquitous 2 minute top ups would mean a small 50MW power plant that runs only in bursts, placed on every corner, useable by every driver.

sophiecentaur

It is true that the main problem I foresee is that of Power, rather than Energy distribution.
I wonder whether a 'small', 50MW electrical power generating unit is efficient enough to cause less pollution than the original petrol powered vehicles. I thought the whole point of going electrical was to locate the energy conversion (generators) in suitable plces and to make them very efficient.
In any case, my point about needing enhanced domestic supplies is relevant and the problem is not soluble by just changing the Law.

dr dodge

A new study for the Department of Energy finds that "off-peak" electricity production

so as long as we are not charging during business hours it would handle it.
so you could charge easily at the mall. just have to do it at 2:00 in the morning...lol

dr

gmax137

I think this is a very interesting question - has this been discussed here or elsewhere? (trying not to hijack this thread...

edit - I recall mheslep (?) having alot to say on this (?) maybe somewhere in the 20 pages of 'fuel saving thread' or was it somewhere else? There was alot about practical comparisons of miles per gallon and kW-hr.

sophiecentaur

It would be interesting to know.
Certainly, the Great British Public (and other groups) seem to think that Electricity is, somehow, both cost-free and pollution-free.
Any new form of transport is bound to have environmental costs, one way or another.

mgb_phys

That's not true.
Yes they want to shut down the large coal fired stations that supply a lot of the power but produce CO2
And obviously you don't want nuclear, cos nuclear is bad m'kay.
And gas is fine as long as you don't need want to transport LPG in tankers or build pipelines

Of course hydro would be good, as long as it doesn't involve flooding any farmland or wilderness.
Wind would be ideal, as long as the turbines aren't visible anywhere pretty, or anywhere that could affect birds, or offshore. And it's a pity that solar isn't really practical.

So as long as the power doesn't produce CO2 and doesn't affect the view, or farmers or birds or involve buying fuel from foreigners - then they are right behind electricity generation

russ_watters

Dang, you're right - just checked and most of my circuits are 15A. I have one that says "washer" and it is 20A/120V - That may be both the washer and dryer because I don't see one for the dryer. The heat is from propane, though. My kitchen general power circuit is 20A.

Too used to commercial where the minimum is 20A.

russ_watters

No, but it will force the cost and responsibility onto the power company instead of the consumer. The power company will just end up back-charging us through our electric bills, but the rates are regulated too...

russ_watters

It is true (in the US and I'd wage in the UK too), otherwise electric cars would never be getting all the press and environmentalist attention they are. In that other thread, the linked study showed an average 27% improvement in emissions by going from an average car to a full electric in the US. With the advent of hybrids as an alternative, there would be a net increase in pollution due to driving an electric car!

It is fine that they are in development because it will take decades for them to become ubiquitous, but coal power is a much bigger and not to mention much easier problem. And it is one that is pretty rarely talked about in the media and not real high on the list for environmentalists. And I bet this is true almost everywhere - heck, Germany decided a few years ago that they would get rid of all their nuclear plants and the result is an increase in coal power. They take credit for a reduction in CO2, though, because of the integration of East Germany.

mgb_phys

Germany have a new technique, they are reducing their CO2 emission to Kyoto levels by shipping their nasty lignite coal to Poland, burning it in Polish power stations and shipping the power back.

Most of their new domestic power generation is coming from a gas pipeline form Russia.

ps. I need to put irony warning in bold.

Averagesupernova

Your post brought up something I had forgotten. A furnace such as gas or propane would require a dedicated 120V 20A circuit also. Your heat is from propane, I assume you mean the heat for the dryer right?

mheslep

The point is that some have much less impact than others.

OmCheeto

Wow. How far do some of you have to drive to get to the mall?

Here are some calculations of my daily commute to and from work:

gas powered
Total distance: 26 miles (ref: odometer)
mpg: 26 mpg (ref: my log)
actual motive energy: 4 kwh (ref: chargecar)
energy consumed: 34.7 kwh (ref: 1 gal = 1.25e8 joules = 34.7 kwh(conversion widget))
efficiency: 0.116 (ref: 4/34.7)
total cost of trip: $2.60 (ref: sign at gas station)
current annual cost: $1000 (ref: pocketbook)

now, switching to electric
Total distance: 26 miles
actual motive energy: 4 kwh
energy consumed: 5 kwh(ref: a real electric car)
efficiency: 0.8
cost of a kwh: $0.11/kwh(ref: my electric bill)
total cost of trip: $0.55
potential annual cost: $210

annual savings: $790
which should be enough to cover the cost of installing a charging station in your garage.

charge time at each end: 20 minutes.(240v 32a = dryer plug)
or 40 minutes at home each night.

And I really think that those of you that routinely drive more than 200 miles per day might want to avoid electric cars. For the time being anyways.

Or are there batteries out there that can accept a full charge faster than that, that I am not aware of?

mheslep

Yes, though the point of this thread has been that fast charge batteries won't do you much good as the charging infrastructure required is impractical.

Borek

Which just made me thinking - what if the charging station has its own battery of batteries, which are charged all the time with more or less constant current? Sure, that means lower efficiency, at the same time it means almost constant load.

OmCheeto

Holy Mary mother of Merry Chistmas everyone that's fast!

hmmmm.... being that I used to personally lug around 312 kilowatt extension cords, I don't see that an 8 minute charge time every 200 miles is much of a problem anymore.

With a second charging plug in the vehicle for low power needs or course. I mean really, who goes home or to work and stays less than 8 minutes?