Fort Hood Report


by russ_watters
Tags: fort, hood, report
russ_watters
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On January 15, a report on the Novermber 5 Ft. Hood shooting was released by the DoD. The full text of the report can be found here: http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/DOD...HR_13Jan10.pdf

The purpose of this thread is two-fold:
1. Discuss the findings of the report.
2. Contrast the reporting of the Ft. Hood shooting with the reporting of the Christmas day airline attack.

Some excerpts (unfortunately, I can't seem to copy and paste from the report...):

DoD force protection policies are not optomized for countering internal threats....Current efforts focus on forms of violence that typically lend themselves to law enforcement intervention (eg., suicide, domestic violence, gang-related activities rather than on perceptions of potential security threats)....
In other words, the DoD simply doesn't look for "internal threats". They monitor troops to see if they may be suicide risks or beat their wives, etc., but they don't have a methodology for identifying and dealing with people who might commit violence against the military, from within the military.

Frankly, this is a shocking deficiency, existing on two separate levels:
1. Just as individual commanders monitor their troops for signs of suicide or domestic abuse, they need to be able to deal with signs of potential violence against their comrades. It may not be common, but nor is Ft. Hood unique.

2. The Ft. Hood incident was partially an intelligence failure. The FBI had information about Hasan's extremism, but didn't investigate enough.

And obviously, the integration of these two levels is also key. If the commanders who were whitewashing Hasan's performace reviews were aware that he was contacting a known extremist Imam in Yemen, perhaps they would have reacted more strongly. If the FBI had known Hasan was giving off-topic presentations justifying terrorism in his med school classes, perhaps they would have taken the contacts with the Imam more seriously. From the report:
We believe a gap exists in providing information to the right people. The mechanmisms for sharing potential indicators of internal threats with appropriate command channels are limited.
An example of the first level is the killing of 5 troops at a Baghdad stress clinic in May of 2009. From an article on the incident:
The report found that the Army doesn’t emphasize command involvement and responsibility for behavioral problems, and instead the brunt of the responsibility rests with chaplains “when it should be a Command, and Commanding Officer Program.”

The chaplain served as “de facto” behavioral health advocate, which contradicts MNF-I policy that states “chaplains cannot serve as suicide prevention officers nor will chaplains assume coordinating authority for the commander’s suicide prevention program.”

Majors through lieutenant colonels “need more than awareness training. They require precise instruction in effective suicide and behavioral problem remediation measures to effectively support our behavioral health professionals,” the report states.

At the unit level, “there is no real conception of when to command refer a soldier for assistance.”
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...&article=65452

That incidnet was a soldier who was referred to a counseling center, but the counseling is where the issue stopped. The response to the threat itself was insufficient and not integrated up and down the chain of command.

The second level is more difficult because it is a purely intelligence operation and essentially involves spying on our own troops. That makes a lot of people squeamish, but it doesn't make me squeamish as a civilian and for soldiers, your entire life is owned by the military. Monitoring and reporting needs to be done.

The report dealt with the whitewashing of the performace reviews. That's both an individual failure on the part of the commanders who did it (and there will likely be consequences for them) and a cultural failure by the military. Frankly, it appears that the military is afraid of being honest about the threat due to the PC culture in the US. More on that in the second secion, though. For here, simply put, Hasan should have been deemed unfit for miltiary service and separated:
We conclude that though the policies we reviewed were generally adequate, several officers failed to comply with those policies when taking action regarding the alleged perpetrator. We recommend taht you refer matters of accountability for those failures to the Secretary of the Army for appropriate action.
That's from the executive summary - I'm having trouble finding more in-depth discussion of it. However, page 16 says that commanders need training in recognizing religious fanaticism or "self-radicalization" and differentiating it from "appropriate" religious practices.

One criticism of the report was the lack of usage of the word "terrorism", Islam or Hasan's name:
The U.S. military's just-released report into the Fort Hood shootings spends 86 pages detailing various slipups by Army officers but not once mentions Major Nidal Hasan by name or even discusses whether the killings may have had anything to do with the suspect's view of his Muslim faith. And as Congress opens two days of hearings on Wednesday into the Pentagon probe of the Nov. 5 attack that left 13 dead, lawmakers want explanations for that omission.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...954960,00.html

Reading the report, I'm less concerned than I initially was at hearing of the omissions: they aren't so much a flaw, just a limitation of the report. The report a good discussion of the flaws in military policy that caused Hasan's extremism to be missed, but it is not report about the Fort Hood shooting. Basically, it is a report about what the military did (a broad report, but a good one), not a report of what Hasan did. So we still need a report about what Hasan did. And that leads to the second section....
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mgb_phys
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Feb2-10, 10:09 PM
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On roughly the same topic, Army suicides are currently running at twice the level of combat casualties
http://www.military.com/news/article...e-rate-up.html
russ_watters
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Feb2-10, 11:37 PM
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Part 2: Ft. Hood vs Christmas Day Attacks

A few days after the Ft. Hood attacks, I started a thread criticizing the media's and the administration's reactions to the attack. The failure to take the Fort Hood attack seriously is evident in contrasting the government and media reactions to the two attacks.

Obama's first reaction was inserted into an already pre-planned speech the same day and doesn't say much as not much was known. He later makes another such insert.

Here is the text of the speech Obama gave on November 10, 5 days after the attack, at a memorial service: http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009...h_transcr.html

People have said how great this speech was, including this commentary by the Atlantic:
Today, at Ft. Hood. I guarantee: they'll be teaching this one in rhetoric classes. It was that good. My gloss won't do it justice. Yes, I'm having a Chris Matthews-chill-running-up-my-leg moment, but sometimes, the man, the moment and the words come together and meet the challenge. Obama had to lead a nation's grieving; he had to try and address the thorny issues of Islam and terrorism; to be firm; to express the spirit of America, using familiar, comforting tropes in a way that didn't sound trite.
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009...aguruation.php


Since it is at a memorial service, it is is of course almost entirly euolgizing and rightly so. And in that context, it really is a great speech. But despite what Ambinder says, except for one vague throwaway comment about 'no religion justifying such an act', it really doesn't address terrorism and Islam (it certainly doesn't use either word!) at all. It also doesn't talk about the government response to the shooting. Why is that a criticism? Looking back, aside from brief interjections into other speeches in the days after the shooting, Obama didn't give a "response" speech. (at least I didn't see one and I googled and searched a Washington Post database of Obama speeches: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/obama-speeches/ )

Contrast that with the Christmas day airline bombing attempt, where Obama gave the following speech on December 28: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...ine-secur.html

This speech is almost entirely content: it is a briefing. He lists facts and timelines and most importantly, tells us what he's going to do about it:
Since I was first notified of this incident, I've ordered the following actions to be taken to protect the American people and to secure air travel.

First, I directed that we take immediate steps to ensure the safety of the traveling public. We made sure that all flights still in the air were secure and could land safely. We immediately enhanced screening and security procedures for all flights, domestic and international. We added federal air marshals to flights entering and leaving the United States. And we're working closely in this country, federal, state and local law enforcement, with our international partners.

Second, I've ordered two important reviews, because it's absolutely critical that we learn from this incident and take the necessary measures to prevent future acts of terrorism.

The first review involves our watch list system, which our government has had in place for many years to identify known and suspected terrorists so that we can prevent their entry into the United States. Apparently the suspect in the Christmas incident was in this system, but not on a watch list, such as the so-called no-fly list. So I have ordered a thorough review, not only of how information related to the subject was handled, but of the overall watch list system and how it can be strengthened.

The second review will examine all screening policies, technologies and procedures related to air travel. We need to determine just how the suspect was able to bring dangerous explosives aboard an aircraft and what additional steps we can take to thwart future attacks.

Third, I've directed my national security team to keep up the pressure on those who would attack our country. We do not yet have all the answers about this latest attempt, but those who would slaughter innocent men, women and children must know that the United States will more -- do more than simply strengthen our defenses. We will continue to use every element of our national power to disrupt, to dismantle and defeat the violent extremists who threaten us, whether they are from Afghanistan or Pakistan, Yemen or Somalia, or anywhere where they are plotting attacks against the U.S. homeland.
This is a great speech - a 'what I'm going to do about it....' speech.

Directed by the White House (it is labeled as a White House report), Homeland Security a 6 page preliminary report on the Christmas Day attack on January 28, detailing the failures that allowed the bomber to conduct the attack: http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/...ngs/index.html

Unlike the Ft. Hood report we received two weeks ago, this report is about the incident itself in addition to detailing the policy/procedure failings that allowed it to occur.

Now presumably, there is a report discussing the Fort Hood incident itself, we just haven't seen it:
[on December 1]
A preliminary review of the federal government's handling of intelligence before the shooting at Fort Hood is on its way to the White House, and sources said they expect the final result to address the limits of the Pentagon's ability to monitor potential threats within the armed forces and information sharing by the FBI.

The deadline for various agencies involved in the case to submit reports to Obama homeland security and counterterrorism adviser John Brennan fell Monday, but administration officials said it would be a week or more before they offer recommendations for changes in the wake of the attack...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...113003883.html
So where is it?
Rep. Pete Hoekstra (R-Mich.), ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, says the Obama administration is stalling in providing information to the leaders of the House and Senate and the congressional intelligence committees on the multiple murders allegedly committed by a radical Muslim Army officer at Fort Hood more than a month ago.

So far, the committee chairman and congressional leaders have received no detailed, substantive briefing on the event and what is known about its perpetrator....

Hoekstra said that a report on the Fort Hood incident had been delivered to President Obama two weeks ago.

“I know that the (Fort Hood) report was delivered to the President on November 30, so I talked to Director Blair last week and said, ‘Hey, I’d just like an update,’ you know? There are a lot—potentially lots—of areas that have ties to foreign intelligence and foreign threats-- international threats. Give us an update,” said Hoekstra.

“I’d like to know who Hasan was in contact with, what happened to his money and these types of things. Who else he might have been talking to in the United States? All of this kind of information. Supposedly we got access to his computers, supposedly we got access to his email, his phone records, financial records, all of these kinds of things,” said Hoekstra.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/58470

And:
The White House has been sitting on a preliminary review of the Fort Hood shooting since the end of November and refuses to share its contents with Congress, House Republicans say.

Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have been pressing the Obama administration to either provide a copy of the review or brief them on it, arguing that it's important for relevant members to be in the loop as the review goes forward.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...t-hood-review/

So where is this report? (reports?)

Obama took a lot of flak for the frankly stupid initial reaction to the Christmas Day bombing attempt of one of his advisors, saying "the system worked" and for not responding fast enough himself. I'm willing to cut him some slack on that since it wasn't his statement and the attack failed. But maybe the backlash was a wake-up call because his speech and response after that has been great.

But simply put, Obama didn't take Ft. Hood seriously. Whether he intended to take the Christmas Day attack seriously before he got kicked, I don't know, but since we're now 3 months past the Ft. Hood attack, he's unlikely to go back and correct the oversight because it will just highlight his failure.

zomgwtf
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Feb3-10, 12:01 AM
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Fort Hood Report


After reading this I come away feeling you are biased against Obama and biased for 'American' nationalism, the 'get rid of everyone in our way immediately' sort of nationalism.

I do not see how the incident on Christmas day is similar to the shooting at Fort Hood... so I do not think his reaction to both events should have been the same at all.

In hindsight it's possible to claim both were motivated by terrorism but I do not see how our hindsight could have played a role in Obamas speech. Just because YOU were willing to call this man out does not mean the president should.
russ_watters
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Feb3-10, 12:19 AM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
After reading this I come away feeling you are biased against Obama...
Certainly yes. I, like everyone else, have a opinions and biases and my opinion of his performance is negative and that leads to a build-up of a negative bias. Similarly, someone who predominantly posts positive things about Obama has a positive bias.

However, I think I am better than average at looking past my personal biases and dealing in facts and logic. My posts above were not a rant - I put a lot of effort into research and presenting facts and logic.
...and biased for 'American' nationalism, the 'get rid of everyone in our way immediately' sort of nationalism.
Not sure how you get that from anything I've written above.
I do not see how the incident on Christmas day is similar to the shooting at Fort Hood... so I do not think his reaction to both events should have been the same at all.
Both are national security threats, so both require responses by the President to the national security threat.
In hindsight it's possible to claim both were motivated by terrorism but I do not see how our hindsight could have played a role in Obamas speech. Just because YOU were willing to call this man out does not mean the president should.
Huh? Whether you call the Ft. Hood shooting "terrorism" or not, it still happened. Are you suggesting that if we don't call it terrorism, we don't need to try to prevent similar acts from happening again?
zomgwtf
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Feb3-10, 02:03 AM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
Both are national security threats, so both require responses by the President to the national security threat.
Which the president has done... is this the only way they are comparable? I do not see why the Presidents reaction and response to these events should be similar...

Huh? Whether you call the Ft. Hood shooting "terrorism" or not, it still happened. Are you suggesting that if we don't call it terrorism, we don't need to try to prevent similar acts from happening again?
No that's not what I'm saying at all. Reading what you've written though it is kind of clear that a majority of your dislike with how Obama handled the situation is his lack of calling it a terrorist act and 'taking it seriously'.
The attack at Ft. Hood was an isolated, individual event with no outside help and I do not think anyone should have jumped the gun on the situation.

I do not see what is wrong with the report that was released by the DoD, it addresses the problems and shows they are intending to fix them. This is what this report was INTENDED to do... it's not a report ON Ft. Hood at all, it's a report on what should be fixed now that a situation like this has come to light. This report goes to show that the event IS being taken seriously...

As well, obviously with this involving the military I would assume that there will be some important information we are not privy to, maybe ever. However there is plenty of information out there released by various organizations (including extremist muslims) on the shooting...

Where exactly is your problem with everything... the only one I can see right now is the lack of the words 'terrorism, muslim, islam' etc..

EDIT: As well I'm just trying to keep this within your points of the thread
1. Discuss the report.
and
2. Contrast the reporting of the Ft. Hood shooting with the reporting of the Christmas day airline attack.

Point 1 I think we're both in agreement with the report as far as it's purpose goes (outlining the problems and solutions brought to light by the Ft. Hood shooting) in saying that the report does it's job well.

Point 2 I think we disagree because you see the report given by the DoD as a report ON Ft. Hood, which it is not. The only thing I can see being compared between the airline attack and Ft. Hood is the Presidents reaction and response, which I have addressed.
I feel these 2 points however are seperate issues...
zomgwtf
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Feb3-10, 02:39 AM
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I think I've found why you think the DoD report is the 'report on the Ft. Hood incident. After searching 'fort hood report' in google I went to msnbc which was the first link. In this article was the following:

Click for related content
Read the Fort Hood report (.PDF)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34876363..._at_fort_hood/

Which brings you to the DoD report. However I think it's misleading calling it the Fort Hood report, it's more like a review of practices. This is made clear in the report as well:

Secretary Gates directed us to report back to him by January 15, 2010, with recommendations to identify and address possible deficiences in:

- the Department of Defense's programs, policies, processes, and procedures related to force protection and identifying DoD employees who could potentially pose credible threats to themselves or others;

- the sufficiency of the Department of Defense's emergency reponse to mass casualty situations at DoD facilities and the response to care for victims and families in the aftermath of mass casualty events;

- the sufficiency of programs, policies, and procedures for the support and care of healthcare providers while caring for beneficiaries suffering from Post Traumatic stress Disorder or other mental and emotional wounds and injuries;

- the adequacy of Army programs, policies, processes, and procedures as applied to the alleged perpetrator.
pg.1 of the DoD report.

So from this it is clear that the report was to be made more of a review of the DoD's programs, policies, processes and procedures. As well as a review of how the Army carried out it's programs, policies, processes and procedures with regard to Hasan... nothing more nothing less. This was not a review on the actual incident, which would imply it is reporting what occured why did he do it, did he have help etc.. It was a 'what went wrong with our system and how do we fix it.'
BobG
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Feb3-10, 01:22 PM
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Interesting to see that "whitewashing" performance reports has become the norm - once again.

When I first joined the Air Force, enlisted personnel were rated on a 9 point scale - except you practically needed a minor criminal act to get an 8 and a major criminal act to get a 7. You'd probably get kicked out of the military if you did anything serious enough to warrant a 6.

About 20 years ago, they finally changed the rating system completely, using a 5 point scale where 5's actually meant something. Only a few top performers got 5's and a person barely skating by could get a 3 - even without doing something serious enough to require law enforcement personnel to get involved.

Now, slowly but surely, the system has drifted back to the point where no one wants to be able to analyze ratings by race, gender, etc to see who gets most of the top ratings and who gets most of the bottom ratings.

Finding 2.9 is a little disturbing:
DoD and Service guidance does not provide for maintaining and transferring all relevant information about contributing factors and behavioral indicators throughout Servicemembers' careers.
It's tough to convince personnel that revealing any stress related problems about themselves won't have an adverse affect on their careers. In fact, it's tough to get some personnel to reveal temporary physical problems if it will cost them a few days flight pay. Military personnel aren't any different than the average person - they're intensely suspicious of having authority figures pry into their private lives and using that info to screw with them.

To say they should be disciplined enough to accept that as one of the conditions they agreed to makes a nice rhetorical statement. The reality is that members will hide problems as long as possible instead of getting counselling and/or treatment. The fact that military members on flight status will hide ailments the member sees as too minor to give up his flight pay for, to the point they'd rather fork out money at civilian pharmacies for medication they could get for free on base, shows how well that idea works.

Military members will probably reveal personal problems to civilian religious leaders, might reveal personal problems to military chaplains, and will be likely to hide personal problems from healthcare providers and/or supervisors - especially if anything revealed becomes part of their permanent record.

It takes a visible commitment to protecting individual members' privacy in order to encourage military members to get help for combat related stress. At what point does the risk of a terrorist become great enough to compromise the effort to help troops returning from combat?
WhoWee
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Feb7-10, 10:22 AM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
The attack at Ft. Hood was an isolated, individual event with no outside help and I do not think anyone should have jumped the gun on the situation.
Are you certain of this?

Would you agree it MIGHT be a good idea to find out if anyone else serving in the military is acting in a similar manner or associating with the same persons?
zomgwtf
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Feb7-10, 12:25 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Are you certain of this?

Would you agree it MIGHT be a good idea to find out if anyone else serving in the military is acting in a similar manner or associating with the same persons?
Yeah it is a good idea, that's why the FBI and the DoD looked into it. Their conclussion they came to through various methods was that the attack at Ft. Hood was an individual event related to no group. There are plenty of reports on this just search for Fort Hood in google.
WhoWee
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Feb7-10, 03:17 PM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
Yeah it is a good idea, that's why the FBI and the DoD looked into it. Their conclussion they came to through various methods was that the attack at Ft. Hood was an individual event related to no group. There are plenty of reports on this just search for Fort Hood in google.
Let me try this again. Are you sure their investigation was thorough - that NOBODY else serving in the military has exhibited similar behavior?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801...me_and_courts/

"Poor performance evaluation
U.S. officials said Hasan was an Army psychiatrist, NBC News reported. Defense officials said Hasan, 39, arrived at Fort Hood in July after practicing for six years at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, which included a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychiatry.

At Walter Reed, Hasan received a poor performance evaluation, according to an official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

There was no official word on motive. But Hasan was scheduled to be deployed overseas on Nov. 28, officials said. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, said military officials had told her that Hasan was “pretty upset” about his deployment, which she said was to be to Iraq.

Image: Nidal Malik Hassan
cstsonline.org
Maj. Nidal Malik Hassan was described as ‘upset’ about his pending deployment to Iraq.
The Associated Press, quoting federal law enforcement officials, said Hasan had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats. The officials said they were still trying to confirm that he was the author.

Medical records on file in Virginia, where Hasan was born and was registered to practice, and Maryland, where he received his medical degree at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, revealed no disciplinary actions or formal complaints. "
zomgwtf
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Feb7-10, 11:24 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Let me try this again. Are you sure their investigation was thorough - that NOBODY else serving in the military has exhibited similar behavior?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33678801...me_and_courts/

"Poor performance evaluation
U.S. officials said Hasan was an Army psychiatrist, NBC News reported. Defense officials said Hasan, 39, arrived at Fort Hood in July after practicing for six years at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, which included a fellowship in disaster and preventive psychiatry.

At Walter Reed, Hasan received a poor performance evaluation, according to an official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

There was no official word on motive. But Hasan was scheduled to be deployed overseas on Nov. 28, officials said. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, said military officials had told her that Hasan was “pretty upset” about his deployment, which she said was to be to Iraq.

Image: Nidal Malik Hassan
cstsonline.org
Maj. Nidal Malik Hassan was described as ‘upset’ about his pending deployment to Iraq.
The Associated Press, quoting federal law enforcement officials, said Hasan had come to their attention at least six months ago because of Internet postings that discussed suicide bombings and other threats. The officials said they were still trying to confirm that he was the author.

Medical records on file in Virginia, where Hasan was born and was registered to practice, and Maryland, where he received his medical degree at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, revealed no disciplinary actions or formal complaints. "
Well how can I say that no other people in the military feel the same thing or want to do the same things? I think it's clear that there are problems with the way that the military had perceived things in the past, but it's clear in this DoD report that they are attempting to correct the situation.
Whether or not other people in the military feel or wish to act the same way has no bearing on whether or not this attack was an individual, isolated event. The fact that he discussed suicide bombings etc. has no bearing on the fact either. He had gone off and done this on his OWN as an INDIVIDUAL. AFAIK only one person has 'praised' his actions... even some of the most extremist groups have said his attack was unnecessary and that he is making big problems... that's to say they condemned the attack. I would link to this but the website has been taken down. (maybe because of it's connection to the attack or something who knows...)
WhoWee
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Feb8-10, 11:02 AM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
Well how can I say that no other people in the military feel the same thing or want to do the same things? I think it's clear that there are problems with the way that the military had perceived things in the past, but it's clear in this DoD report that they are attempting to correct the situation.
Whether or not other people in the military feel or wish to act the same way has no bearing on whether or not this attack was an individual, isolated event. The fact that he discussed suicide bombings etc. has no bearing on the fact either. He had gone off and done this on his OWN as an INDIVIDUAL. AFAIK only one person has 'praised' his actions... even some of the most extremist groups have said his attack was unnecessary and that he is making big problems... that's to say they condemned the attack. I would link to this but the website has been taken down. (maybe because of it's connection to the attack or something who knows...)
There is a major difference between "feelings" and observed behavior and associations. A soldier has no expectation of privacy when national security is concerned.
zomgwtf
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Feb8-10, 11:23 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
There is a major difference between "feelings" and observed behavior and associations. A soldier has no expectation of privacy when national security is concerned.
uhhhh.... ok? I don't see how this changes anything, I never said anywhere that a soldier has expectations of privacy when national security is concerned and this doesn't change the fact that this attack was an isolated event. This man went and did this on HIS OWN for HIS OWN reasons.

As well your point isn't really that great, that feelings are different from behaviour and associations. I believe you are trying to argue that the military should only base their knowledge off of the observed behaviou and associations to come to conclude there may be problems... This is problematic in itself with this situation because this man was a psychiatrist the FBI and DoD were monitoring his actions and connections, AKA 'observing his behaviour and associations' but they felt that he was ONLY carrying out pschiatric work on various individuals. (You do know that military psychiatrist are not ONLY used for military personel right? They do observe and possible treat the enemy too.) ... He was researching from the Walter Reed Medical Centre, his research was on radical beliefs, if you were interested.

Of course the problem here is they couldn't truly see what his feelings and intentions were.
WhoWee
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Feb8-10, 11:31 AM
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Quote Quote by zomgwtf View Post
uhhhh.... ok? I don't see how this changes anything, I never said anywhere that a soldier has expectations of privacy when national security is concerned and this doesn't change the fact that this attack was an isolated event. This man went and did this on HIS OWN for HIS OWN reasons.

As well your point isn't really that great, that feelings are different from behaviour and associations. I believe you are trying to argue that the military should only base their knowledge off of the observed behaviou and associations to come to conclude there may be problems... This is problematic in itself with this situation because this man was a psychiatrist the FBI and DoD were monitoring his actions and connections, AKA 'observing his behaviour and associations' but they felt that he was ONLY carrying out pschiatric work on various individuals. (You do know that military psychiatrist are not ONLY used for military personel right? They do observe and possible treat the enemy too.)

Of course the problem here is they couldn't truly see what his feelings and intentions were.
Really?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov...ood-shootings6

"A senior U.S counter-terrorism official said Thursday night that the Army and FBI were looking into whether Hasan, who is Muslim, had previously come to the attention of federal law enforcement officials as the suspected author of inflammatory Internet comments likening suicide bombers to heroic soldiers who give their lives to save others.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing, said that authorities would examine Hasan's actions in the months leading up to the rampage in part to determine whether authorities had missed warning signs. "This is going to be a long and convoluted and messy investigation," the official said."


You apparently don't think the investigation ended rather quickly?
BobG
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Feb8-10, 12:02 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Really?

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov...ood-shootings6

"A senior U.S counter-terrorism official said Thursday night that the Army and FBI were looking into whether Hasan, who is Muslim, had previously come to the attention of federal law enforcement officials as the suspected author of inflammatory Internet comments likening suicide bombers to heroic soldiers who give their lives to save others.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing, said that authorities would examine Hasan's actions in the months leading up to the rampage in part to determine whether authorities had missed warning signs. "This is going to be a long and convoluted and messy investigation," the official said."


You apparently don't think the investigation ended rather quickly?
Are you going to make a point soon, or are you going to continue to build up the suspense?

I have no idea what you're getting at, so if zomgwtf is baffled by your comments, he's not alone.
zomgwtf
zomgwtf is offline
#17
Feb8-10, 12:12 PM
P: 501
Quote Quote by BobG View Post
Are you going to make a point soon, or are you going to continue to build up the suspense?

I have no idea what you're getting at, so if zomgwtf is baffled by your comments, he's not alone.
I was thinking the same thing, I just didn't bother to post anything... I honestly have no idea what he's getting at anymore.
mheslep
mheslep is offline
#18
Feb9-10, 01:26 AM
PF Gold
P: 3,021
Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
...One criticism of the report was the lack of usage of the word "terrorism", Islam or Hasan's name: http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...954960,00.html...
That's bizarre. The report also does not mention Yemen, jihad, or Muslim either. Perhaps that has something to do with the pending court case against Hasan, which resurfaces the issue of allowing judicial priorities to get in the way of military affairs.


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