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Offshore oil drilling is safe?

by MotoH
Tags: drilling, offshore, safe
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IcedEcliptic
#505
May21-10, 01:32 PM
P: 274
Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Eh? Cite what?

Your suspicions and beliefs outlined in the preceding quote.
IcedEcliptic
#506
May21-10, 01:53 PM
P: 274
A peer-reviewed group will measure flow. Ignoring the chattering politicians, this is an interesting take on the environmental impact beyond the gulf: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/21/gul...ex.html?hpt=T1
mheslep
#507
May21-10, 02:17 PM
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Quote Quote by turbo-1 View Post
You have a mile of head loss to contend with combined with friction between the viscous oil and the pipe wall. If you believe that oil rigs don't have to use pumps to bring the oil to the surface, I'd like to see you come up with some examples.
Well I'm assuming the floor ocean pressure can be applied, either via pressing on the buried reservoir or other means. In that case, absent force to overcome viscous friction I grant is present, raising the fluid requires no external head pressure to rise all the way up the pipe just to the surface. At that point, the pump head required is the same as pumping from the surface at the desired rate, again neglecting the viscous friction from the pipe.

BTW, petroleum engineers certainly DO understand the difference, but they have a vested interest in minimizing the public's perception of the possible flow-rate of the spill. Their use of flow-rates from producing wells to cite a maximum possible flow-rate from this wide-open well-head is disingenuous, IMO. I'd like to see engineers like Wereley and the Woods Hole staff get their hands on raw data that BP is sitting on.
Yes everybody has a vested interest. Some of these petrol engineers might well like to see a competitor (BP) removed from the Gulf, who knows; we can play the motivation game forever. Wereley is not a petroleum or chemical engineer. Put his PIV technique in the hands of petrol/chemical engineer that knows something about spills, then I'm interested.
mheslep
#508
May21-10, 02:19 PM
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Quote Quote by IcedEcliptic View Post
Your suspicions and beliefs outlined in the preceding quote.
Meaning this?

Also I'm suspect that petroleum engineers understand the difference between surface and ocean floor flows.
I.e., I suspect they understand fluid mechanics.
IcedEcliptic
#509
May21-10, 02:25 PM
P: 274
Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Meaning this?

I.e., I suspect they understand fluid mechanics.
Agreed, but nothing I've seen shows an accurate breakdown of the effluent. Are they capturing oil, and only a LITTLE is escaping, lofted by NG, or is 5000 bbl in a day a straight fraction of the total crude? If you don't know the composition of the fluid, or understand the role of pressure and temperature on the mechanics, then I wonder.
Evo
#510
May21-10, 02:37 PM
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Quote Quote by IcedEcliptic View Post
A peer-reviewed group will measure flow.
Can you post the link to that so the rest of us can read what you are referring to?

Thanks.
IcedEcliptic
#511
May21-10, 02:56 PM
P: 274
Quote Quote by Evo View Post
Can you post the link to that so the rest of us can read what you are referring to?

Thanks.
It was in my previous link... http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/21/gul...ill/index.html

Quote Quote by CNN
Meanwhile, the Coast Guard announced the creation of a federal Flow Rate Technical Group to assess the flow rate from the well. Coast Guard Capt. Ron LaBrec said that Adm. Thad Allen would oversee the team, which will include members from the Coast Guard, the Minerals Management Service, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Department of Energy, the U.S. Geological Society and others from the science community and academia.

The peer-reviewed team, which has already begun its work, is to determine the flow rate from the beginning of the incident to the present, LaBrec said.
mgb_phys
#512
May22-10, 11:52 AM
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Currently only a rumor (http://adropofrain.net/2010/05/rumor...efore-blowout/)

But I have been on sites in the US where I have refused to go underground and I know people who work for Schlumberger and their company would definitely walk off a contract if there was any safety violation.
turbo
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May22-10, 12:05 PM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Well I'm assuming the floor ocean pressure can be applied, either via pressing on the buried reservoir or other means. In that case, absent force to overcome viscous friction I grant is present, raising the fluid requires no external head pressure to rise all the way up the pipe just to the surface. At that point, the pump head required is the same as pumping from the surface at the desired rate, again neglecting the viscous friction from the pipe.
This doesn't pass the straight-face test. Can you come up with a viable citation that claims that the static head of the oil in the pipeline is negligible and that minimal pump capacity is required to extract the oil? I'd love to see it.
turbo
#514
May22-10, 12:16 PM
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Quote Quote by mgb_phys View Post
Currently only a rumor (http://adropofrain.net/2010/05/rumor...efore-blowout/)

But I have been on sites in the US where I have refused to go underground and I know people who work for Schlumberger and their company would definitely walk off a contract if there was any safety violation.
Interesting. We'll see (when people are under oath months from now, perhaps) what happened. It would be refreshing to see a contractor walk off a job if they were unable to enforce a stop-work order due to unsafe conditions.

In my experience, Halliburton does not share that quality. I've been on pulp mill/paper mill shutdowns with them and was NOT impressed. Quick and dirty.
tiresmokindad
#515
May23-10, 07:20 AM
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Yes Indeed. I agree that these will be a bad effect!
Ivan Seeking
#516
May23-10, 04:40 PM
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The sickening videos and photos of heavy oil saturating critical marshes, wetlands, and beaches, are beginning to emerge.


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/soa...732/story.html

"The oil that is leaking offshore, the oil that is coming onto our coast threatens more than just our wildlife, our fisheries, our coast," Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said at a Saturday press conference. "This oil literally threatens our way of life."...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/01/lou...ill/index.html

This is a video taken during a flyover of the spill. We can only hope the narrator is being overly pessimistic.

IcedEcliptic
#517
May23-10, 07:50 PM
P: 274
Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
In the case of an offshore oil algae farm (vs ethanol) as described above producing, say 1 million bbls per year, what's implicit in the process that would stop the same kind of disaster from happening in the case of an accident during a storm?
Hell, imagine what a tornado could do... lift a ton of the stuff and spray it everywhere. A hurricane would be even worse.
magpies
#518
May23-10, 07:51 PM
P: 229
Isn't that what is going to happen with this oil spill come storm season?
IcedEcliptic
#519
May23-10, 07:52 PM
P: 274
Quote Quote by magpies View Post
Isn't that what is going to happen with this oil spill come storm season?
It would seem likely, but there is no certain way to predict that.
Ivan Seeking
#520
May23-10, 08:17 PM
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Oil from algae is just vegetable oil. It is non-toxic. You can drink it. And it degrades readily. Also, without a significant source of nitrogen and the proper temps, the algae won't survive in open water - that is, it wouldn't exist as a giant plume that kills everything else. If you have these conditions, you would already have an algae bloom, in most cases.

You would certainly have a lot of fish food!

Also, you wouldn't have millions and millions of gallons of oil leaking endlessly. You could only spill the oil that has been processed. The rest is still trapped in the algae.

Please continue the algae discussion here
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=211274
Ivan Seeking
#521
May23-10, 08:31 PM
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Quote Quote by magpies View Post
Isn't that what is going to happen with this oil spill come storm season?
That is what worries me the most. All of these containment efforts will be useless if a siginficant storm hits the area. Hurricane season starts in one week. The water temps off the coast of NW Africa, the local hurricane nursery, are warmer than normal.

IIRC, when we see an ocean temp of 82 degrees F up through the Carribean, that's when the hurricane engine turns on. I'm not 100% sure of the number [maybe 81 degrees F], but it is surprisingly well defined.
turbo
#522
May23-10, 09:07 PM
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Well, you have still not provided any information (even poorly-reviewed) about how oil from deep-sea wells magically rises to the surface, and how the production rates of existing wells can be used to limit the theoretical maximum outflow of a damaged well-head. I don't want to characterize another forum member as cheerleading for multinational corporations, but you seem to have moved beyond that to baton-twirling. Please link some peer-reviewed studies that show that the potential blow-out rate of a drilling-rig such as this can be characterized or constrained by the production rates of wells in nearby environs.

If the Deepwater Horizon spill can reasonably be constrained (in volumetrics) by the production rates of other wells in the same area, please show some evidence.


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