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I don't believe that there's such thing as a spirit

by tJjohnstone
Tags: spirit, thing
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tJjohnstone
#1
Aug17-10, 05:26 AM
P: 5
Hi, there

I'm not entirely sure where to post this, so please forgive me if this is the incorrect area to post in.

So, I've been studying a bit on psychology, physics and other areas too. I don't believe that there's such thing as a spirit or soul, I think that's part of your body, but I was wondering if anybody had any research that supports the idea that the spirit or soul isn't separate from your body, but rather what the brain does - if you get what I mean.

Thanks!
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jmatejka
#2
Aug17-10, 01:08 PM
P: 123
The Society for Scientific Exploration explores these topics. Their papers are peer reviewed. Here is a link to some PDF abstracts:

http://www.scientificexploration.org.../articles.html
Ivan Seeking
#3
Aug17-10, 01:24 PM
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Note that the Society for Scientific Exploration is not an accepted mainstream source. It may only be used here anecdotally with no references to studies or theories.

A list of journals that may be used are found here:
http://scientific.thomson.com/index.html

I have no idea what the op is asking.

nismaratwork
#4
Aug17-10, 03:59 PM
P: 2,284
I don't believe that there's such thing as a spirit

I think the OP is stating that he is a materialist, but asking if there is some scientific evidence of dualism. The obvious answer is that with current technology, and probably until we die as a species, there will never be a scientific answer to that question, rather it is a matter of philosophy.

LJ, note that materialism in this context means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialist and that dualism means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism...osophy_of_mind)
Ivan Seeking
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Aug17-10, 06:36 PM
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Thanks, I didn't recognize the context.

I know there are a number of schools of thought on this matter - no doubt many being fringe or crackpot - but I don't know if there is any scientific basis for these ideas. I will leave the thread open for any papers suggesting that the mind cannot be explained solely in terms of brain function.

Please note that we are interested in scientific papers and evidence, not personal or internet theories.
loseyourname
#6
Aug17-10, 06:57 PM
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I actually think he's asking for the opposite, for scientific evidence that mental phenomena are entirely caused by the brain.
tJjohnstone
#7
Aug17-10, 08:43 PM
P: 5
Thanks for your replies! :), I'm checking out those links now.

Yes, loseyourname understood what I meant. I'm looking for scientific studies that prove or suggest that dualism highly improbable or impossible, studies that do NOT work in the favour of dualism.

Though, I'd actually also be interested if there are studies that DO support dualism, but from what I can gather so far is that dualism is considered incorrect (if incorrect is the correct term :P) in the scientific community and I pretty much just want to know why. I'm very interested in the topic.
Ivan Seeking
#8
Aug18-10, 12:26 AM
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That seems like a backwards question: I would think that nearly every bit of our understanding of the mind and brain function would qualify as the desired evidence. The exception to the rule would be something suggesting otherwise. I don't know if there are any examples.

Moving to philosophy.
Pythagorean
#9
Aug18-10, 04:38 AM
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The Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul, Francis Crick

Basically, the modern word for soul is consciousness.
nismaratwork
#10
Aug18-10, 10:08 AM
P: 2,284
Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
The Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul, Francis Crick

Basically, the modern word for soul is consciousness.
That is the explanation that works for me, and beyond that I think my capacity to understand the topic with current technology is at an end.

tJohnstone: Sorry that I got your intent off kilter!
skippy1729
#11
Aug18-10, 02:47 PM
P: 148
Quote Quote by tJjohnstone View Post
Hi, there

I'm not entirely sure where to post this, so please forgive me if this is the incorrect area to post in.

So, I've been studying a bit on psychology, physics and other areas too. I don't believe that there's such thing as a spirit or soul, I think that's part of your body, but I was wondering if anybody had any research that supports the idea that the spirit or soul isn't separate from your body, but rather what the brain does - if you get what I mean.

Thanks!
You might want to look at:

The Emerging Physics of Consciousness - edited by J. A. Tuszynski - Springer 2006

which covers several materialistic approaches, some classical, some quantum.

Skippy

PS Although it is not what you are looking for, there is some scientific research being done by the University of Virginia, School of Medicine, Division of Perceptual Studies on apparent cases of reincarnation. They are continuing the work of the late Dr. Ian Stevenson. http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cli...dops/home-page.
Boy@n
#12
Aug18-10, 03:53 PM
P: 240
Until I, or whoever, understands how you can make a computer, or whole internet (since it's even more complex than the brain itself), aware of itself (and also have true feelings), I'd be inclined, and very much so, that there is something beyond this physical realm we scientifically can understand and/or prove.

So, yes, in my experience, we, humans, have souls. Or rather, souls enable us to be aware and feel while existing in this physical bodies which are governed my natural laws, but via souls, free-will is possible, not just consciousness, pain and pleasure and other "human" qualities.
nismaratwork
#13
Aug18-10, 07:03 PM
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Quote Quote by Boy@n View Post
Until I, or whoever, understands how you can make a computer, or whole internet (since it's even more complex than the brain itself), aware of itself (and also have true feelings), I'd be inclined, and very much so, that there is something beyond this physical realm we scientifically can understand and/or prove.

So, yes, in my experience, we, humans, have souls. Or rather, souls enable us to be aware and feel while existing in this physical bodies which are governed my natural laws, but via souls, free-will is possible, not just consciousness, pain and pleasure and other "human" qualities.
This is analogues to a demand by pre-space civilization that until they see that the earth is roughly spherical, they will assume it is flat.
Pythagorean
#14
Aug18-10, 08:16 PM
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Quote Quote by skippy1729 View Post
The Emerging Physics of Consciousness - edited by J. A. Tuszynski - Springer 2006
That's a good summary of the general topics of neurophysics! I've been looking for a text like that for a while.
apeiron
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Aug18-10, 09:04 PM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
That's a good summary of the general topics of neurophysics! I've been looking for a text like that for a while.
Actually it is quantum consciousness crack-pottery.....
Pythagorean
#16
Aug18-10, 10:49 PM
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Take a closer look. Quantum is only one topic. It covers several approaches.
Evo
#17
Aug18-10, 11:03 PM
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Quote Quote by Boy@n View Post
Until I, or whoever, understands how you can make a computer, or whole internet (since it's even more complex than the brain itself), aware of itself (and also have true feelings), I'd be inclined, and very much so, that there is something beyond this physical realm we scientifically can understand and/or prove.
Your lack of understanding means nothing. If you knew how simple the internet was you'd be too ashamed to post here again.

So, yes, in my experience, we, humans, have souls. Or rather, souls enable us to be aware and feel while existing in this physical bodies which are governed my natural laws, but via souls, free-will is possible, not just consciousness, pain and pleasure and other "human" qualities.
This is nonsense.
apeiron
#18
Aug18-10, 11:11 PM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
Take a closer look. Quantum is only one topic. It covers several approaches.
OK, apart from Scott, which isn't a crackpot approach?


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