Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

curious11

Looks to be to the side to me...

AtomicWombat

Two photos that seem to confirm this view.

The inside of reactor building number 4 in operation. The fuel handling machine is in the background and the trench to the SFP can be seen leading from the open reactor. The gantry crane is above to the rear.


The outside after the explosion that seems to show the fuel handling machine from the other side:


The top image is from here:File photo of the inside of reactor No. 4 at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Fukushima Prefecture

artax

OK yes, so the SFP is to the right of the hole I agree, and the steam is coming from the SFP under the green crane pictured in the above post by AW. It would be nice to get diagrammes now of the fukushima plant and rooms/spaces inside reactors 1-4, with an overlay of the outer panels in relation.

rhody

Thanks curie,

So these methods can detect all radio-isotopes, (plutonium, cesium, etc...) in soft tissue, like the lung, thyroid, etc... ?

Rhody...

TCups

Annotated from the AP Photos here:

http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...postcount=2012

The red lines have been added as my interpretation of the level of the top floor (reactor access, top of SFP's). Compare damage above and below each reference line and damage to the roof, Buildings 3, 4.

South Elevation
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...hElevation.png

West Elevation
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...tElevation.png

East Elevation
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...tElevation.png

Top, down
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn270/tcups/Top.png

jensjakob

Hi,

I think there are 3 levels of panels, so the red line should be one panel lower.

When I count on this picture
http://www.physicsforums.com/attachm...7&d=1301478930
and this
http://b.bimg.dk/node-images/929/3/6...hima-vrket.jpg
I get the 3 level of panels above work-floor.

B'regards
Jens Jakob

rasherz

Hi, long time listener, first time caller. I'm currently living in Japan, pretty far from danger but concerned about the water and food becoming contaminated. I don't want to sound political but, in today's press conference the TOEPC spokesman only mentioned iodine levels (good news because of the short half life), no mention of cesium. Does anyone have an explanation for this?

|Fred

Hi rasherz , Help from someone fluent in Japanese listening to the Tepco press point would be lovely , welcome to the thread .
I'm not sure that I can answer you question , but I would like to mention that tepco is mostly monitoring radiation in regards to the plants.

Heath related issue ie isotopes found in the air of cities in watter etc.. Is done by gov agency and non gov agency.. So the tepco press conference would not be in my opinion the best place to get info you are looking for.

TCups

Jens:

Three levels of panels where? At the top floor? I think there are two above, but could be wrong. Doesn't change the reference line with respect to comparison of damages above vs below, though, right? More damage in the lower sections of Bldg 4 with much less overall damage to the roof top of Bldg 4 the way I see it. Corrections?

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...Top2Levels.png

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...SouthUnit4.png

Sure looks like the smoke/steam is coming from the floor above and the water is being sprayed at that level, too.

Attached Thumbnails

 

AntonL

Iodine gets concentrated into your thyroid and is mored dangerous and where you have iodine you will also have cesium.

Cesium looks like potassium (thats why you get potassium-iodine tablets two in one) and is distributed throughout your body and like potassium, cesium is excreted from the body fairly quickly

but read about it here it is better explained
http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Cesium.pdf
http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Iodine.pdf
http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/Plutonium.pdf

and here is the complete list of all possible elements
http://www.evs.anl.gov/pub/doc/ANL_C...All_070418.pdf

rasherz look after yourself and stay safe

morningperson

It means the Tc-99m was produced within six hours prior to detection.

artax

sorry but it doesn't, it could have been produced up to many times the half life ago. it depends on your detectio limit and amount produced.
basically if 1kg was produced after 6hrs there'd be 1/2kg, then after six more 1/4 after 6more 1/8.
so after x half lives there's 1/(2^x) where ^ means to the power.

rasherz

I'm just living here, my Japanese is ok, but the technical vocabulary is a bit difficult to follow. Also to be honest, I'm getting better information from here. My wife is Japanese and I'm giving her updates based on what's on this forum, well ahead of the news. There's still a lot of smoke and mirrors going on. No mention on TV about the smoke coming from the second plant 12 kms south, as far as I know. It's hard to decide what's just sensationalism in the western media and what is being spoon fed to us by TOEPC a few days late. So far so good with this forum.
Thanks guys.

jensjakob

I would say 3 levels above groundfloor. 1 level standing on the west-side, 2 levels fallen to the ground.

Am searching all I can for pictures from inside - that can give the clues.

This picture shows 3 levels of panels, but it looks like it is a different construction (lighter) then #3 :-(
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/imag...hi-reactor.jpg

Allthough this image:
http://www.pmw.de/pm_online/data/PCP...ma-504x378.jpg
could support the theory that there are only 2 levels above the refueling deck

artax

yes unit one, the first to explode was smaller output and different wall design by the looks of things, where have they removed panels of unit 2 to avoid a future explosion like the others? is it the one in the side, quite low down? emanating steam? and is it above the fuel pool?

TCups

Jens:

I believe Units 3, 4 have two levels of concrete columns, reinforced, to bear the weight of the overhead crane. At 3, the north end wall has collapsed, and the crane fell below. I believe the original square hole on the north face of Bldg 4 was below the level of the reactor access floor.

Astronuc

Two panels sit above the reactor service floor according to http://www.physicsforums.com/showpos...&postcount=305 (AtomicWombat, page 20, post #305). See also the ridge at the bottom of the two panels.

See also images:

Tcups, page 21, #330
various on page 23
jinxdone, page 24, #381
Tcups, page 29, #463

The third set of panels sit below the ridge and below the reactor service floor. A blast out at the third level could mean damage to the SFP.