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US Debt now > GDP

by Oltz
Tags: debt
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FlexGunship
#73
Nov7-11, 09:48 AM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.
Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.
WhoWee
#74
Nov7-11, 09:55 AM
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Quote Quote by FlexGunship View Post
Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.
Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?
Oltz
#75
Nov7-11, 10:02 AM
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For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards

Check out some of the specific field reports
Oltz
#76
Nov7-11, 10:05 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?
The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.
WhoWee
#77
Nov7-11, 10:06 AM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards

Check out some of the specific field reports
Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?
mheslep
#78
Nov7-11, 10:11 AM
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If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?
WhoWee
#79
Nov7-11, 10:12 AM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.
Yet new development was accompanied by sewer and water, roads, and power.

http://www.northhillsmonthly.com/201101/perspective.php

"NHMM: The new Pittsburgh International Airport was a landmark improvement. That was when—the early 1990s?

Onorato: It was 1992, and it was an important improvement; not only the airport, but all of the surrounding land. A decade ago, there were no water lines, no sewer lines or anything. Today we’ve built roads, water and sewer lines, and we have modern developments. There are about 15 separate developments that have been created near or on the airport property that didn’t exist just 10 years ago. Economic development is building on those old industrial sites and putting in the necessary infrastructure, whether that’s on brownfield sites or at the airport or wherever—it is probably the biggest change in the county."
FlexGunship
#80
Nov7-11, 10:15 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?
Technically Parks and Recreation needs $0.0 Billion to operate properly, but people can't keep from mucking it all up.

Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?
That's so naive. You can't expect people to actually pay for the stuff they want and need. Heartless Republican!
WhoWee
#81
Nov7-11, 10:21 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?
The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything. Another problem is the surrounding areas along the rivers are comprised of small Burroughs (cities). Some of them maintain their own sewage operations and have experienced both an aging and declining population along with industry/job losses. The environment is cleaner - but jobs are few (IMO). A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.
mheslep
#82
Nov7-11, 10:40 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.
And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.
mheslep
#83
Nov7-11, 10:41 AM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything.
Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.
Oltz
#84
Nov7-11, 10:45 AM
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Why should I we fund a high speed rail in Cali?

Fine with me Lower federal taxes get them out of all infrastructure that does not cross state lines and create a county income tax.

In fact get them out of everything that does not cross state lines.


The sewers of pittsburgh was one specific example the point is a commuter city like pittsburgh that has not changed its city limits in my lifetime has a relativly small population to fund anything.

Pittsburgh is considered the 59th largest city in the country but keep in mind its city limits have never changed if the city limits were expanded to include th suburbs it would become the 10th an increase of roughly 1 million people who legally do not live in Pittsburgh but would tell you thats where they are from (including me) instead we have boroughs and townships and towns all touching eachother and nobody wants to merge as it would mean joining schools and police/fire departments and everything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population
WhoWee
#85
Nov7-11, 10:56 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.
My point is the facilities exist and must be maintained. One of the problems include river flooding into the plants.

There are multiple plants in Allegheny County.
http://www.achd.net/pdw/index.html

"The Public Drinking Water Division (PDW) is responsible for the inspection and oversight of 78 public water systems in Allegheny County, which serve 99% of the County's residents. Systems regulated include facilities such as the City of Pittsburgh Water Treatment Plant, to small systems serving less than 50 people, to water vending machines. All of these facilities are regulated under the Pennsylvania Safe Drinking Water Act, the primary purpose of which is to assure that proper water treatment is being performed and to reduce the threat of biological and chemical pollutants through proper treatment and monitoring."

Population 1.2 million.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/42/42003.html
WhoWee
#86
Nov7-11, 10:59 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.
I should have specified - more than in other locations in the region - such as Cleveland or Erie.
Oltz
#87
Nov7-11, 10:59 AM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.
Everything that enters the city needs to go through a tunnel or over a mountian and then across a bridge. there is approximatly 2 sq miles of flat land in the city and that is the "downtown" area. New york is mostly flat and has port access San Fran also has port access as well as a roadsystem that was designed by an engineer as the city expanded.

For instance the small town I live in was founded in 1680 something (9 miles south of center of downtown) the only options for getting into town are 2 lane roads with 35 mile an hour speed limits and red lights every couple hundred yards. Crossing through more then a dozen police jurisdictions. It takes 45 minutes to get into town with out traffic. Or you can drive 30 miles and cricle around and come in I-279 and it still takes 45 minutes with out traffic.

Anyway lets get back on topic
mheslep
#88
Nov7-11, 12:07 PM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
New york is mostly flat and has port access San Fran also has port access as well as a roadsystem that was designed by an engineer as the city expanded.
And have tidal water flows and hydraulic water tables to deal with and an extremely high land values, labor costs, etc.
Oltz
#89
Nov7-11, 01:00 PM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
And have tidal water flows and hydraulic water tables to deal with and an extremely high land values, labor costs, etc.
Land values and Labor costs are Geography now?

I never said most expensive I also do not think it matters every location will have its problems. Regardless infrastructuire spending is important but it should not be debt spending and perferabbly not federal funding at all.
mheslep
#90
Nov7-11, 02:14 PM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
....problems. Regardless infrastructuire spending is important but it should not be debt spending and perferabbly not federal funding at all.
Agreed.


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