US Debt now > GDP

*WhoWee*

Quote by Oltz

First name one time that something the government ran ended up being more cost efficient with less over head hten when it was ran privately?

Its called budget Creep every year you are given X amount of money for your department and every year you strive to spend slightly more hten that so that the following year they will give you more. This is great for each little department it allows them to gradually increase staff and ammenities as well as preforming your task. When every government office at every level does it every year we end up with a behemoth government that is layered to create more work for less results.

The phrase "if we don't spend it this year we will get less next year" is common and believed.

Second of course we all want to rebuild the infrastructure that is disturbingly close to failure, But the governement and congress already has substantial means for funding these projects unfortunatly this funding has been consistently routed to pet projects for the last ~35 years.

Lastly think of Federal Debt as an adjustable rate mortgage. Remember how well it worked out for all of those people who took out more in debt then they could handle when the rates changed? More debt now is not the answer period. It will bite us cheap easy money does not exist the rates will go up we need to plan 10 + years ahead just like your family should for major debt choices.

We need to stop planning things in election cycles and start actually looking at an accurate long term forecast.

I think a new discussion of wasted stimulus funds is long over-due - in response to calls for additional (special) infrastructure spending. A quick sample from the list.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...he-final-list/

"81: Six woodlands water taxis getting a new home in Texas ($750,000)
80: Maryland group gets money to develop "real life" stories that underscore job and infrastructure-related research findings ($363,760)
79: Studying social networks like Facebook in North Carolina ($498,000) "

a few more

"14: Arizona universities examining the division of labor in ant colonies (combined $950,000)
13: Fire station without firefighters in Nevada ($2 million)
12: "Clown" theatrical production in Pennsylvania ($25,000)
11: Maryland town gets money but doesn't know what to do with it ($25,000)
10: Investing in nation-wide wind power (but majority of money has gone to foreign companies) ($2 billion)
9: Resurfacing a tennis court in Montana ($50,000)
8: University in Indiana studying why young men do not like to wear condoms ($221,355)"

FlexGunship

Quote by WhoWee

I think a new discussion of wasted stimulus funds is long over-due - in response to calls for additional (special) infrastructure spending. A quick sample from the list.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannit...he-final-list/

"81: Six woodlands water taxis getting a new home in Texas ($750,000)
80: Maryland group gets money to develop "real life" stories that underscore job and infrastructure-related research findings ($363,760)
79: Studying social networks like Facebook in North Carolina ($498,000) "

a few more

"14: Arizona universities examining the division of labor in ant colonies (combined $950,000)
13: Fire station without firefighters in Nevada ($2 million)
12: "Clown" theatrical production in Pennsylvania ($25,000)
11: Maryland town gets money but doesn't know what to do with it ($25,000)
10: Investing in nation-wide wind power (but majority of money has gone to foreign companies) ($2 billion)
9: Resurfacing a tennis court in Montana ($50,000)
8: University in Indiana studying why young men do not like to wear condoms ($221,355)"

5: Storytelling festival in Utah ($15,000)
4: Door mats to the Department of the Army in Texas ($14,675)
3: University in New York researching young adults who drink malt liquor and smoke pot ($389,357)
1: Grant for one Massachusetts university for "robobees" (miniature flying robot bees) ($2 million)

FlexGunship

Quote by WhoWee

8: University in Indiana studying why young men do not like to wear condoms ($221,355)"[/I]

They got money for that study?! Give me $30 and I'll lecture you on the topic.

*Oltz*

To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.

FlexGunship

Quote by Oltz

To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.

Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.

*WhoWee*

Quote by FlexGunship

Locally, our power lines seem to be well served by PSNH. I haven't heard of water or sewage problems in my area, but winter wreaks havoc on small roads. So I guess the problems vary from area to area.

Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?

*Oltz*

For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards

Check out some of the specific field reports

*Oltz*

Quote by WhoWee

Our local power companies also do a good job. As for water and sewer - the housing boom was accompanied by improvements to the various systems - wasn't it?

The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.

*WhoWee*

Quote by Oltz

For some data about the state of our infrastructure

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/report-cards

Check out some of the specific field reports

Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?

mheslep

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

*WhoWee*

Quote by Oltz

The problem is most major cities have a sewage system that was desgined for a smaller population and built to last ~75 years and are over capacity and over age limits. For instance a bunch of pipes in the Pittsburgh area are over 100 years old and could fail at any time. In all areas things need worked on and it is location specific as to what the "major" issue is.

Yet new development was accompanied by sewer and water, roads, and power.

http://www.northhillsmonthly.com/201101/perspective.php

"NHMM: The new Pittsburgh International Airport was a landmark improvement. That was when—the early 1990s?

Onorato: It was 1992, and it was an important improvement; not only the airport, but all of the surrounding land. A decade ago, there were no water lines, no sewer lines or anything. Today we’ve built roads, water and sewer lines, and we have modern developments. There are about 15 separate developments that have been created near or on the airport property that didn’t exist just 10 years ago. Economic development is building on those old industrial sites and putting in the necessary infrastructure, whether that’s on brownfield sites or at the airport or wherever—it is probably the biggest change in the county."

FlexGunship

Quote by WhoWee

Energy needs $10 Billion LESS than parks and recreation?

Technically Parks and Recreation needs $0.0 Billion to operate properly, but people can't keep from mucking it all up.

Quote by mheslep

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

That's so naive. You can't expect people to actually pay for the stuff they want and need. Heartless Republican!

*WhoWee*

Quote by mheslep

If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?

The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything. Another problem is the surrounding areas along the rivers are comprised of small Burroughs (cities). Some of them maintain their own sewage operations and have experienced both an aging and declining population along with industry/job losses. The environment is cleaner - but jobs are few (IMO). A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.

mheslep

Quote by WhoWee

A community of 4,000 with 2,000 retirees, 1,000 Section 8 tenants, and 1,000 (250-500 working) people - have difficulty maintaining a water works.

And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.

mheslep

Quote by WhoWee

The City of Pittsburgh has unique challenges as per geography - costs more to do everything.

Cost more than where? New York city? San Francisco? I don't think so.

*Oltz*

Why should I we fund a high speed rail in Cali?

Fine with me Lower federal taxes get them out of all infrastructure that does not cross state lines and create a county income tax.

In fact get them out of everything that does not cross state lines.

The sewers of pittsburgh was one specific example the point is a commuter city like pittsburgh that has not changed its city limits in my lifetime has a relativly small population to fund anything.

Pittsburgh is considered the 59th largest city in the country but keep in mind its city limits have never changed if the city limits were expanded to include th suburbs it would become the 10th an increase of roughly 1 million people who legally do not live in Pittsburgh but would tell you thats where they are from (including me) instead we have boroughs and townships and towns all touching eachother and nobody wants to merge as it would mean joining schools and police/fire departments and everything else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

*WhoWee*

Quote by mheslep

And a community of 4000 does not need much of a water works.

My point is the facilities exist and must be maintained. One of the problems include river flooding into the plants.

There are multiple plants in Allegheny County.
http://www.achd.net/pdw/index.html

"The Public Drinking Water Division (PDW) is responsible for the inspection and oversight of 78 public water systems in Allegheny County, which serve 99% of the County's residents. Systems regulated include facilities such as the City of Pittsburgh Water Treatment Plant, to small systems serving less than 50 people, to water vending machines. All of these facilities are regulated under the Pennsylvania Safe Drinking Water Act, the primary purpose of which is to assure that proper water treatment is being performed and to reduce the threat of biological and chemical pollutants through proper treatment and monitoring."

Population 1.2 million.
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/42/42003.html

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Oltz	To tell you the truth I am more worried about our Water, Sewage and Electric lines then the roads. They are equally important and in worse shape and people do not see them everyday. The point is we do not need to borrow more when funding already exists for these projects we just need to use it more wisely.

mheslep Recognitions: Gold Member	If Pittsburgh needs a new sewer system why doesn't Pittsburgh pay to put one in?