Register to reply

Does massless charge exist?

Share this thread:
phydev
#1
Dec14-11, 04:10 AM
P: 20
We do have numerous particles with zero electric charge and non-zero mass, but do we have particles with zero mass and non-zero electric charge?
Phys.Org News Partner Physics news on Phys.org
Engineers develop new sensor to detect tiny individual nanoparticles
Tiny particles have big potential in debate over nuclear proliferation
Ray tracing and beyond
jobsism
#2
Dec14-11, 04:19 AM
P: 109
I don't think something like that exists. To have a charge would mean loss or gain of electrons, and electrons do have non-zero mass. So, non-zero charge would simply imply non-zero mass, wouldn't it?
Pengwuino
#3
Dec14-11, 04:41 AM
PF Gold
Pengwuino's Avatar
P: 7,120
Quote Quote by jobsism View Post
I don't think something like that exists. To have a charge would mean loss or gain of electrons, and electrons do have non-zero mass. So, non-zero charge would simply imply non-zero mass, wouldn't it?
No. Particles like the W bosons have electric charge and are not electrons

@OP: The only massless particle is the photon (that we know of). Something with zero mass and an electric charge would be easily detectable and easily created. If it did exist, I believe it would mean QED would be all sorts of screwed up, and we know QED is amazingly accurate.

phydev
#4
Dec14-11, 05:07 AM
P: 20
Does massless charge exist?

Quote Quote by jobsism View Post
I don't think something like that exists. To have a charge would mean loss or gain of electrons, and electrons do have non-zero mass. So, non-zero charge would simply imply non-zero mass, wouldn't it?
It does not make any sense... so I simply cannot agree!
I need some reference not views of an individual what he/she thinks.

Electron is a lepton, has a charge of its own.
Quarks do have charges( both -ve and +ve) how can u relate them with gain or loss of electrons??

Charge is an attribute or intrinsic properties, u cannot relate it specially with electrons only!
phydev
#5
Dec14-11, 05:12 AM
P: 20
Quote Quote by Pengwuino View Post
@OP: The only massless particle is the photon (that we know of). Something with zero mass and an electric charge would be easily detectable and easily created. If it did exist, I believe it would mean QED would be all sorts of screwed up, and we know QED is amazingly accurate.
Please elaborate on how it could be easily detected and created if it did exist. And how would it screw up with QED?

Thanks!
phyzguy
#6
Dec14-11, 06:09 AM
P: 2,179
The E-M field carries mass-energy, so since a particle with an electric charge acts as a source of the E-M field, it must have mass.
phydev
#7
Dec14-11, 07:39 AM
P: 20
Quote Quote by phyzguy View Post
The E-M field carries mass-energy, so since a particle with an electric charge acts as a source of the E-M field, it must have mass.
Photon, quanta of EM field does not have mass!!
meldraft
#8
Dec14-11, 09:47 AM
P: 280
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but since Einstein's formula suggests that E=mc^2, if a particle other than the photon where to have 0 mass, 0 energy would be required to create it. That is why it would be extremely easy to make such a particle.
ZapperZ
#9
Dec14-11, 09:55 AM
Emeritus
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
ZapperZ's Avatar
P: 29,238
Quote Quote by meldraft View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but since Einstein's formula suggests that E=mc^2, if a particle other than the photon where to have 0 mass, 0 energy would be required to create it. That is why it would be extremely easy to make such a particle.
Einstein's formula only state that a mass m has an equivalent energy content, so that E is the energy that one can get out of such a mass. It say nothing about how "easy" it is to create such a particle.

Zz.
meldraft
#10
Dec14-11, 10:05 AM
P: 280
Hmmm good to know. Thank you!
phydev
#11
Dec14-11, 10:23 AM
P: 20
@Zz: precisely...!
MechaType
#12
Dec14-11, 12:11 PM
P: 1
That's kind of scary to think of. I am instantaly alarmed. I honestly think something like this cannot exisit. Anything with no mass cannot exsist.
Freespader
#13
Dec14-11, 04:24 PM
P: 28
Light exists, does it not? It has no mass!
ZapperZ
#14
Dec14-11, 04:28 PM
Emeritus
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
ZapperZ's Avatar
P: 29,238
Quote Quote by MechaType View Post
That's kind of scary to think of. I am instantaly alarmed. I honestly think something like this cannot exisit. Anything with no mass cannot exsist.
Whether something exists or not has nothing whatsoever to do with your emotional well-being. It isn't a choice or something we made up.

Zz.
Drakkith
#15
Dec14-11, 04:40 PM
Mentor
Drakkith's Avatar
P: 11,897
Quote Quote by MechaType View Post
That's kind of scary to think of. I am instantaly alarmed. I honestly think something like this cannot exisit. Anything with no mass cannot exsist.
Perhaps you are misunderstanding what Mass is. It is usually taken to be the Rest Mass of a particle. Other terms such as Reletivistic Mass are no longer used due to confusion and such. Since a photon cannot be at rest, it cannot have rest mass, therefor its mass is zero. However, in General Relativity both mass and energy contribute to gravity, meaning that photons are affected by and contribute to gravity. Did you know this?
jobsism
#16
Dec14-11, 08:23 PM
P: 109
Quote Quote by phydev View Post
It does not make any sense... so I simply cannot agree!
I need some reference not views of an individual what he/she thinks.

Electron is a lepton, has a charge of its own.
Quarks do have charges( both -ve and +ve) how can u relate them with gain or loss of electrons??

Charge is an attribute or intrinsic properties, u cannot relate it specially with electrons only!
Ah, I see...I'm just a beginner, so I guess I was only voicing what I knew...

Thanks to everyone for enlightening me! :)
granpa
#17
Dec15-11, 12:10 AM
P: 2,258
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koide_formula

The Koide formula is an unexplained relation discovered by Yoshio Koide in 1981. It relates the masses of the three charged leptons so well that it predicted the mass of the tau.



The mystery is in the physical value. The masses of the electron, muon, and tau are measured respectively as me = 0.510998910(13) MeV/c2, mμ = 105.658367(4) MeV/c2, and mτ = 1,776.84(17) MeV/c2, where the digits in parentheses are the uncertainties in the last figures.[1] This gives Q = 0.666659(10).[2] Not only is this result odd in that three apparently random numbers should give a simple fraction, but also that Q is exactly halfway between the two extremes of 1⁄3 and 1.
Pengwuino
#18
Dec15-11, 12:18 AM
PF Gold
Pengwuino's Avatar
P: 7,120
Quote Quote by phydev View Post
Photon, quanta of EM field does not have mass!!
Quote Quote by Freespader View Post
Light exists, does it not? It has no mass!
Photons do not carry electric charge.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Are photons massless or practically massless High Energy, Nuclear, Particle Physics 10
Can magnetism exist independently of current or charge? Classical Physics 60
Cogito ergo sum,.. however, I dont know you exist, prove to me you exist General Discussion 31
How can a conductor of uniform charge density exist Classical Physics 7
Do mathematical proofs exist, of things that we are not sure exist? Math & Science Software 43