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Another cold war ? China and U.S.

by thorium1010
Tags: china, cold
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thorium1010
#1
Jan5-12, 09:41 AM
P: 201
Like the title, has another cold war begun between China and U.S.. There are some indications and developments or Am I stating the obvious ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16423881

Appreciate comments and discussion on the topic.
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phinds
#2
Jan5-12, 11:02 AM
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Do you think China and the US are deeply concerned that we will have a nuclear war with each other?
Ryan_m_b
#3
Jan5-12, 11:17 AM
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The BBC reporting on the speculation of a magazine about whether or not a classified technology is being used to spy on another nation as a precursor to a period of intense covert operations and nuclear stand-off is not any firm indication to me that we are going to have another cold war.

thorium1010
#4
Jan5-12, 11:24 AM
P: 201
Another cold war ? China and U.S.

Quote Quote by phinds View Post
Do you think China and the US are deeply concerned that we will have a nuclear war with each other?
Well, they are concerned about domination or influence around the world, with or without the nuclear arsenal.
MarcoD
#5
Jan5-12, 11:32 AM
P: 98
I don't think so at the moment. But I still have this -rather private- annoying doom-and-gloom scenario how the world will respond to less energy resources. And, personally, since I don't think the US has a real problem, I think Europe should double its efforts in transitioning to a (what do I know) hydro based economy, such that well can all slide comfortably into a next century.
Jimmy Snyder
#6
Jan5-12, 11:32 AM
P: 2,179
This is going to make dinner conversation at my house rather awkward. Would you pass the salt dear. Yes, but not unless you pass me the pepper darling. OK, simultaneously at the count of three.
thorium1010
#7
Jan5-12, 11:56 AM
P: 201
Quote Quote by MarcoD View Post
I don't think so at the moment. But I still have this -rather private- annoying doom-and-gloom scenario how the world will respond to less energy resources. And, personally, since I don't think the US has a real problem, I think Europe should double its efforts in transitioning to a (what do I know) hydro based economy, such that well can all slide comfortably into a next century.
The cold war between russia and america ushered in a lot of spending in science and technology . Perhaps the competiton between china and west to succeed could bring in new technology and maybe some viable solutions to energy problems.
MarcoD
#8
Jan5-12, 12:54 PM
P: 98
Quote Quote by thorium1010 View Post
The cold war between russia and america ushered in a lot of spending in science and technology . Perhaps the competiton between china and west to succeed could bring in new technology and maybe some viable solutions to energy problems.
I don't think it'll work that way. Competition will probably mean increasing tensions in an effort to gobble up as much of resources as possible while sticking to the old-manner of doing bussiness - and starvation after that. We have never experienced a scenario where there is no growth; or rather, you have to time the transition to an economy which will perform less than the preceding, or other, economies. This is a problem which is solved by planning ahead for decades (international cooperation too) and I don't think there are a lot of nations which still do that. Well, maybe except for Chinese and Germans.

(Personally, I think that is what will happen. The Germans transition, the US will let the old economy go bust, and then copy the model of the Germans. But I do feel a bit crackpottish with that prediction.)
John Creighto
#9
Jan5-12, 01:21 PM
P: 813
I wonder what deep secretes they would obtain by spying on a space laboratory? ( Or even what area of technology). Would it be biological technology, computer technology (ultra pure silicon crystals), material technology, robotic technology (self replication nano-teck) , etc.

Moreover, if the United States was concerned about china leading in one of these areas, would it be more economical to directly invest in them rather than trying to steal the technology through espionage?

To me the article seems like a lot of much to do about nothing.
Ryan_m_b
#10
Jan5-12, 01:32 PM
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Quote Quote by John Creighto View Post
Moreover, if the United States was concerned about china leading in one of these areas, would it be more economical to directly invest in them rather than trying to steal the technology through espionage?
Or if you were going to steel a technology why invest in a big expensive spaceplane? Why not just send a team to China that can bribe, blackmail and steal the research data?
Quote Quote by John Creighto View Post
To me the article seems like a lot of much to do about nothing.
My thoughts exactly.
Antiphon
#11
Jan5-12, 09:01 PM
P: 1,781
Begun?

Before you were born there were a few people like Mao, MacArthur and Chiang Kai-shek. They would say it started prior to 2012.
tooth
#12
Jan7-12, 01:33 PM
P: 2
A war between the U.S. and China would be unlikely since both economies are linked and any problem would damage the global economy.
klimatos
#13
Jan9-12, 04:19 PM
P: 412
Quote Quote by tooth View Post
A war between the U.S. and China would be unlikely since both economies are linked and any problem would damage the global economy.
Neither links nor the possibility of global economic damage has ever stopped power-hungry nations or leaders in the past. I doubt if it would in the future.

You seem to be an idealist. As a counter-balance, might I suggest you read Mearsheimer's The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.
Ryan_m_b
#14
Jan9-12, 04:23 PM
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Quote Quote by klimatos View Post
Neither links nor the possibility of global economic damage has ever stopped power-hungry nations or leaders in the past. I doubt if it would in the future.
I'd contest that by pointing out that there has never been such an intertwoven, global economy in the history of the world and it will probably only get more so. The only caveat I make to this observation is that total war tactics may allow a country to untangle themselves from any economic ties by becoming industrially self-sufficient.
MarcoD
#15
Jan9-12, 05:17 PM
P: 98
W.r.t. global powers and tensions, a funny thought for the completely paranoid: We all might just be governed by the Rockefellers. Look here: the trilateral committee, then look at the Italian and Greek members.

But it probably ain't true, since that committee seems to exist of do-good-ers.

For US/Chinese relationships and their dominance in Africa, there is a nice documentary on Al Jazeera, but I didn't find the link again. In short, the US (H. Clinton) retorts nationalistic to Chinese in Africa, whereas Chinese sometimes fail to take responsibility w.r.t. black worker's rights, a lot keep to themselves, but some also integrate nicely into African societies.

Seems we, the public, are just stuck with nationalistic and humane tendencies in the world. Maybe the Internet will serve as a pacifier, we may certainly hope so.
PhysicsMonk
#16
Jan23-12, 05:40 AM
P: 13
Quote Quote by klimatos View Post
Neither links nor the possibility of global economic damage has ever stopped power-hungry nations or leaders in the past. I doubt if it would in the future.

You seem to be an idealist. As a counter-balance, might I suggest you read Mearsheimer's The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.
This dude is crazy. This argument presume there is no MAD, but the reality is, in the modern world, no countries wants to use MAD, and conventional weapons are not going to be used if China, and US engage in a war.
MarcoD
#17
Jan23-12, 08:37 AM
P: 98
Quote Quote by PhysicsMonk View Post
This dude is crazy. This argument presume there is no MAD, but the reality is, in the modern world, no countries wants to use MAD, and conventional weapons are not going to be used if China, and US engage in a war.
You cannot use MAD, it's both an hypothesis and a doctrine, not a tool.
skippy1729
#18
Jan23-12, 12:28 PM
P: 148
How can we have a cold war with China? Who will buy their plastic dog-crap? Who will but our monopoly bonds?

Skippy


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