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Romney pays 15% taxes

by JonDE
Tags: pays, romney, taxes
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russ_watters
#73
Jan26-12, 09:09 PM
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Quote Quote by ThomasT View Post
So now Romney isn't just the sleazy political opportunist, or the adherent to a religious cult in the minds of some, he's also an extremely rich guy who pays a smaller percentage of his income in taxes than a huge number of Americans who are stuggling to make ends meet.
Er, didn't we just see a stat that showed Romney paid a higher rate than 80% of Americans?
ThomasT
#74
Jan26-12, 09:16 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
Er, didn't we just see a stat that showed Romney paid a higher rate than 80% of Americans?
I missed that. So, 80% of Americans pay less than 14% tax on their incomes?
russ_watters
#75
Jan26-12, 09:25 PM
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Yup, roughly: looking back, the stat was 80% paid less than 15% and Romney paid 14.5%. But that shouldn't be surprising since 47% pay 0% or less, right?
Evo
#76
Jan26-12, 09:29 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
But that shouldn't be surprising since 47% pay 0% or less, right?
And why do they pay no taxes? Below the poverty level?

Here's the answer, they're dirt poor.

31: Percent of nonpaying American households making $10,000 or less per year in 2010 (PDF link to study). An American household of any size making this amount of money, including just one person, is automatically under the poverty threshold.

61: Percent of nonpaying American households making $20,000 or less per year.
http://news.yahoo.com/numbers-47-per...170500327.html
Char. Limit
#77
Jan26-12, 09:33 PM
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I've got two jobs, but dad tells me that apparently I pay negative tax. Since I let him do my taxes, I trust him on that. Just sayin', not everyone who doesn't pay taxes is a worthless freeloader.
mheslep
#78
Jan26-12, 09:46 PM
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Quote Quote by Char. Limit View Post
I've got two jobs, but dad tells me that apparently I pay negative tax. Since I let him do my taxes, I trust him on that. Just sayin', not everyone who doesn't pay taxes is a worthless freeloader.
It's not that legally paying no fed. income tax means anyone is worthless. It is simply the law, wrongly in my view. Everybody making enough to eat ought to pay something, half of 1% maybe, but something.
ThomasT
#79
Jan26-12, 09:46 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
And why do they pay no taxes? Below the poverty level?
Here's the answer, they're dirt poor.
http://news.yahoo.com/numbers-47-per...170500327.html
Yeah, I think it would be very difficult living, in America, on an income of, say, less than $25k, much less $10k per year.
lisab
#80
Jan26-12, 09:49 PM
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Quote Quote by mheslep View Post
It's not that paying no fed. income tax means anyone is worthless. It is simply the law, wrongly in my view. Everybody making enough to eat ought to pay something, half of 1% maybe, but something.
Where I live (Washington State), there is a sales tax. So here, and in all places where there is a sales tax, they do pay something.

Not to mention gas tax, car registration tax, utility taxes, etc.
Char. Limit
#81
Jan26-12, 09:50 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Where I live (Washington State), there is a sales tax. So here, and in all places where there is a sales tax, they do pay something.

Not to mention gas tax, car registration tax, utility taxes, etc.
Hey, I live in the same place!

*acts like he just found this out*

But yeah, there's sales tax, and I'm sure other taxes as well. Gas tax I think is going up.
mheslep
#82
Jan26-12, 09:59 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Where I live (Washington State), there is a sales tax. So here, and in all places where there is a sales tax, they do pay something.

Not to mention gas tax, car registration tax, utility taxes, etc.
Everybody pays a local sales or local income tax somewhere, but I referred to federal taxes. Almost everybody should pay a little something to the federal govt. in my view, to encourage people to pay attention to federal elections if nothing else.
mheslep
#83
Jan26-12, 10:07 PM
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Quote Quote by ThomasT View Post
Yeah, I think it would be very difficult living, in America, on an income of, say, less than $25k, much less $10k per year.
That's hard for a family with kids, not so much for a single person. I lived on less than $25k (today's dollars) for a couple years, though I had no school debt burden. Took a trip to Europe for about $1200 (today's $) including air. I worked hard, played hard, and I was not 'poor'.
ThomasT
#84
Jan26-12, 10:08 PM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
Yup, roughly: looking back, the stat was 80% paid less than 15% and Romney paid 14.5%.
But wasn't Romney's income around $20m?

Imho, the tax code needs to be seriously revised ... basically eliminating all loopholes and deductions. Then somebody with an income like Romney's pays a much higher percentage in taxes than the average salary or wage earner.

The point being that when you get into the millions of dollars of yearly income, it's likely that much of that income is not the result of any sort of productive or creative work that benefits the general economy, but rather due to ridiculously inflated incomes/bonuses and investments.

Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
But that shouldn't be surprising since 47% pay 0% or less, right?
There are people who pay less than 0% tax?

Anyway, isn't anybody who's working, and on the grid, subject to social security and medicare/medicaid taxes -- so that nobody who's filing a tax return, even if they get a refund wrt federal income tax, is untaxed?
ThomasT
#85
Jan26-12, 10:19 PM
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Anyway, to return to my point, I think that this disclosure will hurt Romney. It simply adds to the list of things that average Americans might be expected to not like about him, imo.
skippy1729
#86
Jan27-12, 12:49 AM
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85 posts in 2 days! Assuming that this topic stimulates similar attention in the general election I think Romney is not a good choice for the GOP; a big distraction from the real issues.

Skippy
russ_watters
#87
Jan27-12, 05:34 AM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
And why do they pay no taxes? Below the poverty level?

Here's the answer, they're dirt poor.

http://news.yahoo.com/numbers-47-per...170500327.html
That's "dirt poor" by a definition you pulled out of the air, Evo. The US poverty line does not cover 47% of Americans. The first block in the link (31% of the 47%) is roughly all the poor in the US, by the federally defined poverty level.

"Why" is an interesting question, though: why has the number of Americans paying 0% or less shot up dramatically in the last 30 years while the poverty rate has been relatively flat?
russ_watters
#88
Jan27-12, 05:36 AM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Where I live (Washington State), there is a sales tax. So here, and in all places where there is a sales tax, they do pay something.

Not to mention gas tax, car registration tax, utility taxes, etc.
Sure, but now we're comparing apples and oranges. This thread is about Romney and his 14.5% is only about his federal income tax. If you want to throw in other taxes so you can say the poor pay taxes, you have to also add those other taxes to Romney's percentage too.
russ_watters
#89
Jan27-12, 05:41 AM
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Quote Quote by ThomasT View Post
But wasn't Romney's income around $20m?
Yes. So what?
Imho, the tax code needs to be seriously revised ... basically eliminating all loopholes and deductions. Then somebody with an income like Romney's pays a much higher percentage in taxes than the average salary or wage earner.
Er, are you not listening or do you simply not believe the stats that you're seeing with your own eyes? He already does! 14.5% is much higher than 0%, isn't it?

Moreover, because people get down to 0% largely through deductions, your proposal (eliminating all loopholes and deductions) would almost certainly have exactly the opposite effect of what you are looking for.

And in addition, I think we should examine whether this "problem" is getting better or worse. I think most people would be surprised.....but that's another thread.
There are people who pay less than 0% tax?
Yes. Please look at the stats that were provided for you. Again (thanks to mege):
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/coll...xRates2007.pdf

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=456

(Similar data in both links, one in PDF and one in html)
Anyway, isn't anybody who's working, and on the grid, subject to social security and medicare/medicaid taxes -- so that nobody who's filing a tax return, even if they get a refund wrt federal income tax, is untaxed?
Yes, but again if we want to compare apples to apples, you need to stick with the federal income tax because that's what Romney's 14.5% is about.
ThomasT
#90
Jan27-12, 06:52 AM
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@russ watters,

Yes, I looked at the publications, and have no reason to doubt their veracity. But my point was that Romney, who made about $20m, and paid 14.5% on that income is paying a smaller percentage than a lot of people who made between $50k and $100k. Eg., my best year, when I was working and paying taxes, was about $80k, and I'm pretty sure that I paid the federal government more than 14.5% of that.

Anyway, imo, the important point wrt this thread is that Romney's disclosure will hurt his chances of getting elected to the presidency ... simply because, imo, most Americans are going to want someone making $20m to pay more than 14.5% of that in federal income tax.

Wrt including the payments for SS and Medi, the fact of the matter is that they're payments made to the federal government by everybody who reports less than $106k, so, imo, it makes sense to include these in any comparative consideration of taxes paid to the federal government.


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