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Obama's Candidacy

by Pythagorean
Tags: candidacy, obama
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skippy1729
#19
Feb1-12, 02:37 AM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
He has the most experience as president with the current political atmosphere.
This is a fascinating statement. Is it intended to present a reason or qualification for re-election?


Compare this statement with:

Kim Jong-un has the most experience as Supreme Leader with the current political atmosphere.

OR

Bashar al-Assad has the most experience as president of Syria with the current political atmosphere.

mege makes some relevant and largely factual statements and is scolded for being partisan. Many of the other posts praise his rhetoric over his record. If rhetorical skills are what we need then, hands down, he's the man.

Skippy
Pythagorean
#20
Feb1-12, 03:12 AM
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I'm going to ignore comparison of Obama to the Supreme Leader.. that's ridiculous...

Obama has done a lot to reduce money-powered lobbying.

I'm also curious as to what President Obama is doing for you 'as a student of science'?
note: regardless of tuition costs, I am on RA's and TA's, I teach and do research for tuition. Food and gas prices are rising too. That's the nature of the beast, I don't blame Obama for that. But either way, I don't pay tuition, I work under research assitanceships for it, and the stipend rises with the tuition; the hours contracted stay the same.

what he has done for science/education (at least):

5 billion dollars to NIH
lifted the ban on stem cell research funding
student loan relief (caps on repayment rates)
extends more benefits to National Guard members who performed active service and allows for education benefits to be transferred to family members.
investing $2 billion in competitive grants to reform community colleges
$2,500 American Opportunity tax credit for tuition expenses


In general, you can see a list of accomplishments:
http://www.whathasobamadone.org/
Pythagorean
#21
Feb1-12, 04:15 AM
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Quote Quote by Pengwuino View Post
Heh, my parents are pure middle class and had nothing but higher taxes and higher medical bills because of him. I'm sometimes curious as to which middle class people are talking about when they say Obama is a man of the middle class. You can appeal all you want to people, but when they see your actions concerning them, appealing to voters isn't going to be worth much.
We'll see; I hold fast to my prediction that he'll win. I'm not even going to bother voting.

My mother is a nurse and my father is a federal employee so it didn't seem to affect them negatively. As a grad student, I'm povert, so taxes and medical and loans have worked out great for me under Obama.
mege
#22
Feb1-12, 05:02 AM
P: 193
Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
I'm going to ignore comparison of Obama to the Supreme Leader.. that's ridiculous...

Obama has done a lot to reduce money-powered lobbying.


note: regardless of tuition costs, I am on RA's and TA's, I teach and do research for tuition. Food and gas prices are rising too. That's the nature of the beast, I don't blame Obama for that. But either way, I don't pay tuition, I work under research assitanceships for it, and the stipend rises with the tuition; the hours contracted stay the same.

what he has done for science/education (at least):

5 billion dollars to NIH
lifted the ban on stem cell research funding
student loan relief (caps on repayment rates)
extends more benefits to National Guard members who performed active service and allows for education benefits to be transferred to family members.
investing $2 billion in competitive grants to reform community colleges
$2,500 American Opportunity tax credit for tuition expenses


In general, you can see a list of accomplishments:
http://www.whathasobamadone.org/
Your list of examples just furthers my point - the President is essentially 'buying' votes with tax dollars by shoveling money to individuals. "Oh, look - that nice man gave me $2500" - this is why the President will likely win reelection. Too bad his campaign is costing the country trillions.

Out of those things you listed, there are only 2 arguably 'common interest' type projects: the community college reform money and stem cell research. The stem cell research ban was silly, and the community college money dispursement was seen as redundant since many CCs had revitalized in the late-90s already when the states were doing better. The CC money was really more of a state-education-bailout than an education policy.
Pythagorean
#23
Feb1-12, 05:36 AM
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Then we agree Obama will win by appealing to the most people. You keep trying to sell me on common good though which only seems dishonest to me. It's snake oil. Have you forgotten about Hobbes and Locke? The alternative to this kind of appealing to masses was killing opposition and oppression.

So do you think a particular candidate has "real" snake oil?
russ_watters
#24
Feb1-12, 06:25 AM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
He has the most experience as president with the current political atmosphere.
I believe that his "experience" is going to be a major problem for him.
russ_watters
#25
Feb1-12, 06:27 AM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
I don't know what's best for the whole, and I don't like it when people pretend they do. I also don't trust people that claim to; I'm cynical like that.

That's how our law system is built, free-market and all, Hobbes, Lock, etc...
[stunned] Then how can you vote at all?
also, that's why Obama's going to win the election. Because he appeals to the personal needs of the most people. As Evo said, middle America.
You may be right, but that attitude may just kill western democracy. It's doing a fine job in Europe and we're racing to catch up.

I also agree that that will likely be Obama's campaign strategy. It makes me scared and sick to think that's what we've devolved into.

I'd much prefer an attitude where driven by bias one believes that what is best for them is best for the country because at least the good of the country is a consideration. Instead it sounds like you just want to pillage what you can from the ship before it sinks.
daveb
#26
Feb1-12, 08:31 AM
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Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
He has the most experience as president with the current political atmosphere.
Well, Roosevelt has the most experience being president, but he's dead.
daveb
#27
Feb1-12, 08:43 AM
P: 926
Quote Quote by mege View Post
I see the President as being the 'leader of his party' and when he couldn't get 'his agenda' passed through a friendly congress, I have a hard time seeing him being successful.
I think one reason for that was that he took a hands-off approach to Congress, letting them decide decide the specifics rather than write the legislation himself. In this way, he let a bunch of bickering hyenas argue over things, so in that essence, yes, it could be said he didn't lead his party.
(even if I agreed with his policies) I think much of the extreme partisanship that exists is due to the 'us vs them' mentality that he talks about in nearly every speech. There is always someone for the President to blame it seems. That's not healthy for the country as a whole IMO, especially when we probably all could use less government in our lives.
That partisanship has been going on a long time (I would say since Nixon, though maybe eralier - I'm too young to remember before that).

Say what you want about the previous administration, but nearly all of his 'infamous' policies had vast bipartisan support*. That can't be said about President Obama - he seems too focused on eating the rich (so is that cannibalism?).
*(The tax cuts that were passed through congress in 2001/3 were one of the few major policies passed along party lines - but if they were so bad, why didn't President Obama and his friendly congress totally repeal them - especially when the sunset provision came to term?)
Because also included in the provisions were other tax cuts that benfitted the middle class, and he wasn't willing to see those expire. In essence, he didn't throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Evo
#28
Feb1-12, 10:04 AM
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Romney is appealing to the upper class by the tax cuts he wants to give them, and himself, but that's ok?
Char. Limit
#29
Feb1-12, 10:53 AM
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Wow, didn't take long for this thread to get derailed by anti-Obama fanatics, did it?
russ_watters
#30
Feb1-12, 11:45 AM
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Quote Quote by Char. Limit View Post
Wow, didn't take long for this thread to get derailed by anti-Obama fanatics, did it?
It did? To whom are you referring?
Char. Limit
#31
Feb1-12, 11:47 AM
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Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
It did? To whom are you referring?
This is probably gonna get an infraction, but since you asked, I'm referring to Mege. I don't think he's had a good thought about Obama in his life. At least that's not the message I get from reading his posts.

EDIT: Not that it really matters. I probably won't visit this thread again.
Pythagorean
#32
Feb1-12, 12:44 PM
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There's a lot of nonsequiturs in response to the OP...

Russ, I already sad I'm not voting. Obama will still win. Democracy isn't going to last forever. Majority wins? Doesn't anyone read history? That's how Cesar got so much power. The majority is not equipped to guide political decisions.
skippy1729
#33
Feb1-12, 12:48 PM
P: 148
Quote Quote by Pythagorean View Post
I'm going to ignore comparison of Obama to the Supreme Leader.. that's ridiculous...
I WAS MAKING NO SUCH COMPARISON. I was trying to figure out what your OP meant. The substitutions (Assad and Kim) are straightforward and tend to show that the OP is a largely empty statement. Therefore I was trying to figure out what this thread was about. Your reply has clarified what this thread is about.

Skippy
Pythagorean
#34
Feb1-12, 12:55 PM
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So do you agree he will have a 2nd term or not?

edit:

Also, the OP isn't an empty statement. Changing administration is a nightmare, especially changing partisans. Given two otherwise equal candidates, in a time of economic challenges, the wrong decision would be to change administration.

So it is an argument in favor of Obama's candidacy. Of course, they're not equal. Mitt Romney has less of a chance of becoming a president, so an lot of his time/energy/money are being wasted right now.
turbo
#35
Feb1-12, 01:06 PM
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IMO, Obama will win a second term. He can run (quite effectively, I believe) against Boehner and McConnell, who have pledged to quash every Democratic initiative in order to make Obama a one-term president. That kind of partisanship does not serve the interests of the people - only the interests of the GOP, and it's not going to play well this fall. When the focus of the GOP leadership is not on economic recovery or job-creation, but just on getting rid of Obama, they are petty and self-serving. Maine's two senators are supposedly "moderate" Republicans, but they do whatever McConnell tells them to, even if that runs directly against the interests of this predominantly poor rural state.
Gokul43201
#36
Feb1-12, 01:07 PM
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Quote Quote by Pengwuino View Post
Heh, my parents are pure middle class and had nothing but higher taxes and higher medical bills because of him.
Which taxes have increased, and by how much?

Digging around the internets, I count a total of about $60B in tax hikes that have taken effect so far (nearly a third of which involves plugging a loophole in an alternative fuels tax credit that primarily affects the lumber/paper industry - see "Black Liquor Tax").

The 'Making Work Pay' tax credit alone was over $100B, and if you throw in all the payroll tax cuts and small business credits that Obama has passed, I wouldn't be surprised if there's been close to $200B in cuts.

So I'd be surprised if any significant fraction of the population has seen an increase yet (though that may change in the next few years). I think you'd have to be a chain smoking (see: tobacco tax increase) paper mill to have seen more tax raises than cuts.


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