Obama's Candidacy

*ThomasT*

Quote by Angry Citizen

America doesn't; but the City of Austin in which I reside is kind enough to have something similar. And when I get out of college, I'll benefit from Obama's universal health care plan (distinct from socialized medicine) in that my preexisting condition will have to be covered.

The healthcare industry, even considering Obamacare, is still seriously out of whack. How did it get to a point where the average person can't afford adequate preventative care?

Has Obama done enough to counter the root problems of overinflated healthcare costs? Imho, no.

In fact, it could be argued that Obama hasn't done many things that he could have done to counter the status quo, a status quo that maximizes corporate profits, the financial sector, and benefits the rich to the detriment of the country as a whole.

*Angry Citizen*

Has Obama done enough to counter the root problems of overinflated healthcare costs? Imho, no.

I agree. Obama's faux-universal-health-care system is not a replacement for real, honest-to-god socialized medicine. However, he has done a lot - wait till the price control comes into effect where the insurance industry is forced to pay 80% of its income on health care.

*WhoWee*

Quote by phoenix:\\

Those two may be facts, but what isn't a fact is 20 million people unemployed and looking for work.

Did someone post "20 million people unemployed and looking for work" as factual?

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

America doesn't; but the City of Austin in which I reside is kind enough to have something similar. And when I get out of college, I'll benefit from Obama's universal health care plan (distinct from socialized medicine) in that my preexisting condition will have to be covered.

How much will your plan cost per year between premium, deductibles, co-insurance, co-pays, etc. - any idea?

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

I agree. Obama's faux-universal-health-care system is not a replacement for real, honest-to-god socialized medicine. However, he has done a lot - wait till the price control comes into effect where the insurance industry is forced to pay 80% of its income on health care.

Please clarify your opinion of how this will work - please present accurate information.

*Angry Citizen*

Quote by WhoWee

How much will your plan cost per year between premium, deductibles, co-insurance, co-pays, etc. - any idea?

Assuming a roughly linear relation in cost per capita, approximately half what it does now.

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

*Angry Citizen*

Quote by WhoWee

Please clarify your opinion of how this will work - please present accurate information.

Please clarify your clarification on how this will work. What would you like to know? It's in the PPACA. Indeed, it's already starting to happen.

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2010pr...20101122a.html

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

Assuming a roughly linear relation in cost per capita, approximately half what it does now.

http://ucatlas.ucsc.edu/spend.php

Considering this thread is titled Obama's Candidacy - I'll ask this question in the context of promises made by the President - why do you believe health care costs will be reduced by 50% when Obamacare is fully implemented?

btw - please support your response if you decide to present specifics beyond your opinion.

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

Please clarify your clarification on how this will work. What would you like to know? It's in the PPACA. Indeed, it's already starting to happen.

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2010pr...20101122a.html

Accordingly, you posted mis-information. This is from your link "New regulations issued today by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) require health insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of consumers’ premiums on direct care for patients and efforts to improve care quality." my bold

You stated "However, he has done a lot - wait till the price control comes into effect where the insurance industry is forced to pay 80% of its income on health care. "

Do you have any idea whatsoever the (pre-PPACA) average profit margin is for an insurance company or the average percentage of premium allocated to direct care for patients?

*Angry Citizen*

why do you believe health care costs will be reduced by 50% when Obamacare is fully implemented?

Excuse me, I think I misread your post. I thought you were asking me about the cost of socialized medicine (which is the plan I advocate) rather than the cost of my actual insurance plan. I haven't the foggiest. I don't know what insurance I'll be on.

Furthermore, I don't believe health care costs will be reduced by 50% when Obamacare is fully implemented because it is not a socialized medical system. It is a universal health care system that is still farther to the right-wing than any western European system. But mark my words - our cost per capita will go down, and our health will increase as a result of it. Belgium has a reasonably similar UHC plan, and the figures for their system is widely available.

btw - please support your response if you decide to present specifics beyond your opinion.

The post you are quoting has a source from the University of California at Santa Cruz. I think that qualifies as support.

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

The post you are quoting has a source from the University of California at Santa Cruz. I think that qualifies as support.

I can't open your link. However, if it was on topic - it would be a good source.

*Angry Citizen*

Quote by WhoWee

Accordingly, you posted mis-information. This is from your link "New regulations issued today by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) require health insurers to spend 80 to 85 percent of consumers’ premiums on direct care for patients and efforts to improve care quality." my bold

You stated "However, he has done a lot - wait till the price control comes into effect where the insurance industry is forced to pay 80% of its income on health care. "

Do you have any idea whatsoever the (pre-PPACA) average profit margin is for an insurance company or the average percentage of premium allocated to direct care for patients?

I see very little difference between my post and the link. 80% is a baseline figure. It is the minimum for the general populace. Since insurance companies do not acquire any income aside from premiums (please correct me otherwise), my statement matches.

As for the average percentage, no, I do not. However, we can be assured that it is lower than 80%:

http://fyi.uwex.edu/healthreform/aca...ct-jan-1-2011/

Specifically:

According to HealthCare.gov, the Department of Health and Human Services’ website on health-care reform, the new rules will protect up to 74.8 million insured Americans. Some 9 million people could be eligible for rebates worth up to $1.4 billion.

Unless those darn HHS guys are lyin' again.

*Angry Citizen*

Quote by WhoWee

I can't open your link. However, if it was on topic - it would be a good source.

I'll quote relevant sections then (in full context):

Despite the wide gaps, higher spending on health care does not necessarily prolong lives. In 2000, theUnited States spent more on health care than any other country in the world: an average of $ 4,500 per person. Switzerland was second highest, at $3,300 or 71% of the US. Nevertheless, average US life expectancy ranks 27th in the world, at 77 years. Many countries achieve higher life expectancy rates with significantly lower spending. The chart below shows the top 30 countries in the world ranked by life expectancy. The red line indicates per-capita health expenditure (right axis), and shows that many countries outperform the US with approximately half the spending.

Below that portion is the attached chart. Note that the chart shows (for some reason) that the US's life expectancy is far higher than it actually is. Make sure to read the relevant paragraph above.

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

I see very little difference between my post and the link. 80% is a baseline figure. It is the minimum for the general populace. Since insurance companies do not acquire any income aside from premiums (please correct me otherwise), my statement matches.

As for the average percentage, no, I do not. However, we can be assured that it is lower than 80%:

http://fyi.uwex.edu/healthreform/aca...ct-jan-1-2011/

Specifically:

Unless those darn HHS guys are lyin' again.

Again, you posted mis-information - whether you "see very little difference" or not. In the future, please be sure to distinguish between your opinions and fact.

In the context of this thread about Obama's Candidacy - perhaps we should explore everything the President has ever said about the condition of the healthcare system and everything he's promised? Given that the PPACA will take another 2 years to implement - it seems a good topic to measure the President in the past, present, and future.

*Angry Citizen*

Again, you posted mis-information - whether you "see very little difference" or not. In the future, please be sure to distinguish between your opinions and fact.

Was my 'opinion' factually inaccurate? No. It was not. The error I made was a conservative error that would've benefited you had you not spoken up; given that the reality may be up to 85% on actual health care costs, that is just another plus in favor of the PPACA.

*WhoWee*

Quote by Angry Citizen

Was my 'opinion' factually inaccurate? No. It was not. The error I made was a conservative error that would've benefited you had you not spoken up; given that the reality may be up to 85% on actual health care costs, that is just another plus in favor of the PPACA.

If you want to present your opinion as factual - please support with more than additional opinions.

*Angry Citizen*

I can't make you read links. See support already given.

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Angry Citizen	I can't make you read links. See support already given.