Rick Santorum's candidacy ...

Jasongreat

Here is Santorums CPAC speech, there was quite abit of fawning over it going on, on a certain channel today, but I havent had a chance to watch it yet.

MarcoD

I always forget the US is such a religious place.

WhoWee

In the industrial northern cities - it seems there's a church on every corner - the south is known as the biblebelt - like it or not religion is part of our culture.

SHISHKABOB

maybe yours, not mine : /

WhoWee

What northern industrial city are you suggesting doesn't have a lot of churches?

phoenix:\\

Religion is more a sub-culture in America, it isn't really apart of it in the sense that Americans base their principles around religion. The principles we do have are more along the lines of common human good rather than some religious fervor of old. Even the religious are finding it harder and harder to completely accept the Bible as something to live their lives by as it contradicts with the American principles of how we ought to treat other humans or how one would want to live his/her life.

A few Bible verses from the New Testament:

Sexual immorality by the Bible's standard:

Yup, and...

With that all said... Read this:

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/digi...sue/53?page=66

Where is the disowning of these heretics?

and in Rick Santorum's words, "I Wish I Made As Much Money As Mitt Romney"

there is something about envy as well and not following worldly possessions, isn't there? No surprise I don't envy Mitt Romney, I believe making too much money and hoarding it to be completely wrong, but that is just me and I'm not christian or religious for that matter. So, him saying "taking faith and crushing it" is what?

SHISHKABOB

just because there are five churches in my town doesn't mean church is a part of *my* culture

WhoWee

I would love to hear President Obama argue your point against Senator Santorum.

WhoWee

I could be wrong, label it IMO - but my guess is the majority of Americans get married/buried in church/temple/mosque ceremonies - that is a cultural aspect of the majority.

SHISHKABOB

yeah I totally agree that it's a big part of most people's lives in america, and I don't doubt that I'm gonna get married in a church and get buried at one too. But I stopped going to church and thinking about life in a religious way several years ago when my church sort of fell apart. Though now that I think about it, the only reason why I went to church was because I was friends with all the kids in the youth group there, not so much because I felt that religion was a deep part of my life.

Which makes it a bit of a problem for me here in the USA because so many people base their lives on their faith and vote according to their religion, etc. but I don't do that at all. It's important for a lot of people, but not ALL people.

WhoWee

If you think about it, the youth groups are cultural as well. I really don't think a majority of people vote based on religious beliefs. However, if a candidate chooses to take an anti-religion position in a serious way - I think people will defend their religious rights and vote accordingly.

ThomasT

This raises an interesting question. What part does a candidate's theistic religious (or not) orientation/affiliation play in most peoples' minds? How much does it affect their vote?

This seems to assume that most people are pro-religion in some important sense. An assumption which the extant public evidence seems to support.

Apparently, American society is oriented toward the idea that some theistic religion is better than no theistic religion at all, and that a certain religion, namely Christianity, is preferable to, say, Judaism or Islam (the main competitors to Christianity, afaik).

Apparently, a majority of Americans vote based on whether or not a candidate is an avowed Christian or not.

I therefore agree with your opinion that if a candidate were to profess, say, atheism, then that candidate would have virtually no chance of being elected. That is, American freedom of religion doesn't, in practice, include the freedom to choose to not believe in some theistic religious mythology. And, fapp, imo, it doesn't include the freedom to choose to not believe in the Christian religious mythology.

In other words, wrt running for public office, as long as one is a Christian of some sort, then America is a haven of religious freedom.

I think that "if a candidate [chose] to take an anti-religion position in a serious way", then the opposition to that stance, reflected in the vote, wouldn't be due to people defending the right to believe as one sees fit, but rather would be due to people defending a particular religious bias.

To connect this to the OP. Santorum is, I think, as a sort of fanatical Christian, not really in favor of freedom of belief. But then who is?

lisab

Bolded: I'll believe that when an openly atheist candidate is elected president.

Btw, atheist <> anti-religion. But that's probably way off-topic.

ThomasT

Yes, you made the point I was trying to make in much fewer, and probably more effective, words.

What does "<>" mean?

lisab

Oh sorry...it was used in programming years ago. Guess that shows my age . It means, does not equal.

ThomasT

That's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure. In which case, I would say that atheism connotes anti-theistic religion. But yes, this is a bit off topic.

Then again, Santorum is a self-avowed theistic religious fanatic. So maybe at least some discussion of this is appropriate for this thread. I don't know, and defer to the moderators.

WhoWee

Label this post IMO. It's very possible we've already had an atheist President - just kept it a secret. If religion isn't made an issue, I'm not certain anyone would care.

However, to your point about an openly atheist candidate, if they chose to attack Christianity specifically - I don't think they'd have a chance of being elected. If the said they just don't belong to a church or subscribe to a religion - and didn't try to sell their philosophy - I think they would be electable based on issues.

As for the person who goes to church for weddings, funerals and the occassional special event - it's not likely they'll vote for someone because the church made an endorsement. However, if that religion is attacked by a candidate I would anticipate they would defend their religion in the same fashion a nationality, or a fraternity, or a school/neighborhood bond might be defended.