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Rick Santorum's candidacy ...

by ThomasT
Tags: candidacy, rick, santorum
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WhoWee
#145
Feb11-12, 04:56 PM
P: 1,123
Quote Quote by SHISHKABOB View Post
just because there are five churches in my town doesn't mean church is a part of *my* culture
I could be wrong, label it IMO - but my guess is the majority of Americans get married/buried in church/temple/mosque ceremonies - that is a cultural aspect of the majority.
SHISHKABOB
#146
Feb11-12, 05:03 PM
P: 614
Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
I could be wrong, label it IMO - but my guess is the majority of Americans get married/buried in church/temple/mosque ceremonies - that is a cultural aspect of the majority.
yeah I totally agree that it's a big part of most people's lives in america, and I don't doubt that I'm gonna get married in a church and get buried at one too. But I stopped going to church and thinking about life in a religious way several years ago when my church sort of fell apart. Though now that I think about it, the only reason why I went to church was because I was friends with all the kids in the youth group there, not so much because I felt that religion was a deep part of my life.

Which makes it a bit of a problem for me here in the USA because so many people base their lives on their faith and vote according to their religion, etc. but I don't do that at all. It's important for a lot of people, but not ALL people.
WhoWee
#147
Feb11-12, 05:11 PM
P: 1,123
Quote Quote by SHISHKABOB View Post
yeah I totally agree that it's a big part of most people's lives in america, and I don't doubt that I'm gonna get married in a church and get buried at one too. But I stopped going to church and thinking about life in a religious way several years ago when my church sort of fell apart. Though now that I think about it, the only reason why I went to church was because I was friends with all the kids in the youth group there, not so much because I felt that religion was a deep part of my life.

Which makes it a bit of a problem for me here in the USA because so many people base their lives on their faith and vote according to their religion, etc. but I don't do that at all. It's important for a lot of people, but not ALL people.
If you think about it, the youth groups are cultural as well. I really don't think a majority of people vote based on religious beliefs. However, if a candidate chooses to take an anti-religion position in a serious way - I think people will defend their religious rights and vote accordingly.
ThomasT
#148
Feb12-12, 07:13 PM
P: 1,414
Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
I really don't think a majority of people vote based on religious beliefs.
This raises an interesting question. What part does a candidate's theistic religious (or not) orientation/affiliation play in most peoples' minds? How much does it affect their vote?

Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
However, if a candidate chooses to take an anti-religion position in a serious way - I think people will defend their religious rights and vote accordingly.
This seems to assume that most people are pro-religion in some important sense. An assumption which the extant public evidence seems to support.

Apparently, American society is oriented toward the idea that some theistic religion is better than no theistic religion at all, and that a certain religion, namely Christianity, is preferable to, say, Judaism or Islam (the main competitors to Christianity, afaik).

Apparently, a majority of Americans vote based on whether or not a candidate is an avowed Christian or not.

I therefore agree with your opinion that if a candidate were to profess, say, atheism, then that candidate would have virtually no chance of being elected. That is, American freedom of religion doesn't, in practice, include the freedom to choose to not believe in some theistic religious mythology. And, fapp, imo, it doesn't include the freedom to choose to not believe in the Christian religious mythology.

In other words, wrt running for public office, as long as one is a Christian of some sort, then America is a haven of religious freedom.

I think that "if a candidate [chose] to take an anti-religion position in a serious way", then the opposition to that stance, reflected in the vote, wouldn't be due to people defending the right to believe as one sees fit, but rather would be due to people defending a particular religious bias.

To connect this to the OP. Santorum is, I think, as a sort of fanatical Christian, not really in favor of freedom of belief. But then who is?
lisab
#149
Feb12-12, 08:16 PM
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Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
If you think about it, the youth groups are cultural as well. I really don't think a majority of people vote based on religious beliefs. However, if a candidate chooses to take an anti-religion position in a serious way - I think people will defend their religious rights and vote accordingly.
Bolded: I'll believe that when an openly atheist candidate is elected president.

Btw, atheist <> anti-religion. But that's probably way off-topic.
ThomasT
#150
Feb12-12, 08:36 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Bolded: I'll believe that when an openly atheist candidate is elected president.
Yes, you made the point I was trying to make in much fewer, and probably more effective, words.

Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Btw, atheist <> anti-religion. But that's probably way off-topic.
What does "<>" mean?
lisab
#151
Feb12-12, 08:38 PM
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Quote Quote by ThomasT View Post
Yes, you made the point I was trying to make in much fewer, and probably more effective, words.

What does "<>" mean?
Oh sorry...it was used in programming years ago. Guess that shows my age . It means, does not equal.
ThomasT
#152
Feb12-12, 08:47 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Oh sorry...it was used in programming years ago. Guess that shows my age . It means, does not equal.
That's what I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure. In which case, I would say that atheism connotes anti-theistic religion. But yes, this is a bit off topic.

Then again, Santorum is a self-avowed theistic religious fanatic. So maybe at least some discussion of this is appropriate for this thread. I don't know, and defer to the moderators.
WhoWee
#153
Feb12-12, 11:57 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
Bolded: I'll believe that when an openly atheist candidate is elected president.
Label this post IMO. It's very possible we've already had an atheist President - just kept it a secret. If religion isn't made an issue, I'm not certain anyone would care.

However, to your point about an openly atheist candidate, if they chose to attack Christianity specifically - I don't think they'd have a chance of being elected. If the said they just don't belong to a church or subscribe to a religion - and didn't try to sell their philosophy - I think they would be electable based on issues.

As for the person who goes to church for weddings, funerals and the occassional special event - it's not likely they'll vote for someone because the church made an endorsement. However, if that religion is attacked by a candidate I would anticipate they would defend their religion in the same fashion a nationality, or a fraternity, or a school/neighborhood bond might be defended.
SixNein
#154
Feb13-12, 12:47 AM
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Quote Quote by Oltz View Post
You are taking Distraction the wrong way. Having been in the army and having fought in Iraq please let me explain.

Women in combat are a distraction because the men are morried about protecting the women then they are about themselves or the mission. Right or not it leads to more mistakes and more bad choices. I have seen it. Women are fine in the military and are fine in non combat MOS's ie medic, supply, intel whatever.

Sorry for OT
If I recall from Spartan history, they use to assign soldier lovers to students of military. The idea was that they would better protect each other. And quite frankly, Spartans bull dozed armies for a very long time in the ancient world. So I don't buy this stuff.
SixNein
#155
Feb13-12, 01:06 AM
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Quote Quote by SHISHKABOB View Post
Which makes it a bit of a problem for me here in the USA because so many people base their lives on their faith and vote according to their religion, etc. but I don't do that at all. It's important for a lot of people, but not ALL people.
In my opinion, people not only vote according to their religion, but they think of government in a religious fashion. Facts, analysis, and reasoning just simply don't matter that much. Just look at some of the attacks on science. And many of these political ideologies have become a religion to most people. In the south where I live, there even seems to be some kind of anti-educaiton culture. I've had so many people warn me about taking science because those evil professors will turn me against God. I've never had a professor encourage atheism.

At any rate, I think America is so religious because our distribution model is severely flawed. Our production keeps increasing, but you don't see improvement in much of the population; instead, it seems to be concentrated towards the top. So when a comparison is made between America and other industrialized nations, America is an outlier on religion, and it appears to be more inline with developing nations. In my opinion, this is a result of high inequality in America.
MarcoD
#156
Feb21-12, 12:04 AM
P: 98
Oooh! I always thought the Dutch are completely irrelevant (internationally)? Now this?
Hobin
#157
Feb21-12, 10:35 AM
P: 194
I'm Dutch, and I laughed out loud when I read about that in the newspaper.

...Then I realized that guy might become president.

Also, the Dutch aren't *that* irrelevant. I think. Right? A little relevant? Maybe? *hides behind his cheese, herring and tulips*
turbo
#158
Feb21-12, 10:39 AM
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I haz no herring or tulips! What do I do!?
Hobin
#159
Feb21-12, 11:03 AM
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Quote Quote by turbo View Post
I haz no herring or tulips! What do I do!?
Quick! Hide behind that windmill over there!
MarcoD
#160
Feb21-12, 05:00 PM
P: 98
Quote Quote by Hobin View Post
Also, the Dutch aren't *that* irrelevant. I think. Right? A little relevant? Maybe? *hides behind his cheese, herring and tulips*
I always substitute 'Finland,' a country I almost know nothing about, when 'grand' claims are made. Most people from the rest of the world are clueless, don't know where the Netherlands is situated, don't know much about the people, don't know we're a monarchy, don't have any clue why they should notice, might think we're a brand of German, etc.

I'ld say we're largely unknown, and almost utterly irrelevant except in our small corner of the world.
Alfi
#161
Feb21-12, 07:25 PM
P: 151
Quote Quote by MarcoD View Post
I always substitute 'Finland,' a country I almost know nothing about, when 'grand' claims are made. Most people from the rest of the world are clueless, don't know where the Netherlands is situated, don't know much about the people, don't know we're a monarchy, don't have any clue why they should notice, might think we're a brand of German, etc.

I'ld say we're largely unknown, and almost utterly irrelevant except in our small corner of the world.
lol - thanks
nice post .


nothing to do with Rick Santorum ... but thanks.
MarcoD
#162
Feb21-12, 07:53 PM
P: 98
Ah well. It's not that I don't like my little country, I absolutely adore it. But "A beacon of light?" Or something close to that? I mean, get real.


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