The First Scientist: Anaximander and his legacy

marcus

On 10 November Rovelli gave a talk on how our picture of the universe affects how we think and then took part in a panel discussion (wide ranging topics, I gather, role of science in culture, arts, society...possible subversive or revolutionary potential of scientific ideas?) at a famous old theater in Rome----Teatro Valle.

http://www.teatrovalleoccupato.it/in...l-teatro-valle

Teatro Valle has been "occupied" for several months to save it as a historical landmark.
It is the oldest regular operating theater in Rome and kind of "belle epoque" velvet romantic looking. Very grand.

So artists and theater people have been occupying it, preventing its destructive remodeling or whatever, and giving interesing persentations and performances which are at least in this case FREE to the public, donation requested.

So Rovelli and some others went down to Rome and gave an evening live talk-show on the 10th and now on the 13th the Anaximander book is doing rather well.
it was just #375 among all books at Italian Amazon, and #3 in the special category of philosophy.

==quote==
http://www.amazon.it/dp/8861840752/
As of 9:50 AM Pacific time, on 13 November

Posizione nella classifica Bestseller di Amazon: n. 375 in Libri (Visualizza i Top 100 nella categoria Libri)
n.3 in Libri > Società e scienze sociali > Filosofia
n.21 in Libri > Scienze, tecnologia e medicina

marcus

Google translator is amazing. I wanted an example of the use of the early Greek word for feudal lord or tribal leader ANAX

So I monkeyed around with a traditional Jewish prayer and got this

ακουει ισραελ Αναξ ο Θεός σου ένας Αναξ μονοσ

I'm sure that this has grammar mistakes and anachronisms etc but Google translated it.

I will have to try that again. Yes it translates it this way:
hear Yisrael lord your God is one lord ALONE

alt

Hi Marcus - I find your posts very interesting and insightful. Yes, Google translate is amazing.

If you didn't know already, there is an on line bible at;

http://www.onlinebible.org/

You can download various modules such as Hebrew, Byzantine Greek, etc, and run them in parallel to the English (and numerous versions of that) so as to compare language, meanings, tranlation (or loss thereof) etc. I toy with it often and occasionally find it quite revealing.

marcus

Anaximander was the primary person at the root of the tradition where there is an idea of natural or physical law, and a model of the cosmos with the earth surrounded by empty space (not supported by elephants etc.) and where natural causes are found for phenomena (like life, rain, eclipses, day and night, etc.) rather than explaining mythically by divine agency.
So I was playing around some more with Google translator and this occurred to me:

ακουει ισραελ το νομος του κοσμου σου ενας νομος μονος

Again I do suspect that this has grammar mistakes etc but it translates more or less this way:
Hear O Israel the Law of your cosmos is one Law.

Played around with it some more and got:
Ακούστε Ιωνες, το νομος του κοσμου σου ενας νομος μονος

Listen Ionians, the Law of your world is one Law.

marcus

Rovelli just gave a couple of (I think interesting) talks at Princeton. One of them, on Anaximander, was yesterday 25 April at 4:00 PM:
http://philosophy.princeton.edu/inde...view&extid=809

Anaximander Of Miletus: Early Beginning And Conceptual Aspects Of Scientific Thinking
Carlo Rovelli, Centre de Physique Théorique de Luminy, Aix-Marseille University, France

The other talk was at the Institute for Advanced Studies, on the current definition, status, open problems, and prospects of Loop quantum gravity. That was two days earlier.

Monday, April 23, 2012
High Energy Theory Seminar
“Loop Quantum Gravity: Recent Results and Open Problems”
Location: Bloomberg Lecture Hall
Time: 2:30 PM
Speaker(s): Carlo Rovelli, Centre de Physique Théorique de Luminy, Aix-Marseille University, France
Description: The loop approach to quantum gravity has developed considerably during the last few years, especially in its covariant ('spinfoam') version. I present the current definition of the theory and the results that have been proven. I discuss what I think is still missing towards of the goal of defining a consistent tentative quantum field theory genuinely background independent and having general relativity as classical limit.
http://www.princeton.edu/physics/eve...ent.xml?id=347


Ακούστε Ιωνες, το νομος του κοσμου σου ενας νομος μονος

Hear, O Ionians, the Law of your world is one Law.
_____

marcus

Here's an online video of a talk by Rovelli about Anaximander and the birth of the scientific tradition
http://www.cerimes.fr/le-catalogue/c...entifique.html
The first 8 minutes are by someone else (a French astrophysicist) and if you want to you can skip that by dragging the time button sort of 10% of the way along or however much you need to to get to around 8 minutes into the program.

fuzzyfelt

Thank you, yet again, Marcus!

marcus

I'm glad to be able to share an interest in the early science of the Ionians, Fuzzyfelt. I am thankful to you for this opportunity!
Also I think you are comfortable with French---it presents no obstacle to you. So if you watch it you can tell better than I can how well the lecture went.

fuzzyfelt

No, I don't find it that easy, but I've had some help, and I've enjoyed it.

marcus

I'm forgetful, I think of you as speaking some Italian, possibly bilingual, because of having lived some time in Italy. But I could easily be confused. And that does not mean you would automatically understand a lecture by Rovelli in French. But you probably come closer than I do

BTW the Anax book was doing well last time I looked. At noon Pacific time (which I guess is 9 PM over there) today 19 May it was #497 in all Amazon books:

==quote Italian Amazon==
Posizione nella classifica Bestseller di Amazon: n. 497 in Libri (Visualizza i Top 100 nella categoria Libri)
n.26 in Libri > Società e scienze sociali > Filosofia
n.39 in Libri > Scienze, tecnologia e medicina
==endquote==
http://www.amazon.it/scienza-rivoluz...dp/8861840752/

"Anaximander's Revolution"--La rivoluzione di Anassimandro--I like that part of the title.

And number 26 and 39 on a couple of their "top 100" bestseller lists. Not bad!
====================

Just for comparison I checked with Usa Amazon to see how the e-book is doing.
http://www.amazon.com/The-First-Scie...dp/B005NI3BWI/
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #134,299 Paid in Kindle Store (See Top 100 Paid in Kindle Store)
#79 in Kindle Store > Kindle eBooks > Nonfiction > History > Ancient > Greece

This Greek phrase still echoing in my head:

Ακούστε Ιωνες, το νομος του κοσμου σου ενας νομος μονος

[Akouste Iones, to Nomos tou cosmou sou enas Nomos monos. (The "to" pronouced "toe". The "ou" pronounced "oo")]

Hear, O Ionians, the Law of your world is one Law.
___

OmCheeto

Sometimes I wish I had a million hours of spare time to find all of the PF Jewel threads.

Thank god they pop up once in awhile for me to catch glimpse of.

I do like the way this Rovelli thinks:

from his SciAm blog

Reminds me a bit of something Andre said the other day:

bolding mine
from his Ethics in science thread

Physicians probably more than anyone should study Anaximander. One set of their studies, pathogens, tend to evolve much more quickly than their patients.

fuzzyfelt

We enjoyed the french with the rolling "R", Marcus. :)

And good thoughts, Om, about uncertainty.