VLF Transmission Using Soundcard


by sru2
Tags: soundcard, transmission
sru2
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#1
May10-12, 12:04 PM
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I know I can make a VLF transmitter by running a software signal generator through a soundcard and into an antenna.

What happens if I play two signals at once, do I get two carrier waves?
If I use a WAV file (LPCM) and merge two sine waves, will this also create two carrier waves?
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sru2
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#2
May10-12, 04:27 PM
P: 62
I thought I would give everyone an example. In the following diagram we have two stereo Wav files (LPCM). If we send a signal from any of these channels to the soundcard, we can produce a weak VLF wave at the same frequency.



If we then mix the two Wav files, we get the output below. Rather than two waves superimposed, we have combination of the two waves.

The question is after passing this through the DAC of the soundcard, do we get an electrical signal that looks like the Wav file, or do we get the two frequencies as above?

sru2
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#3
May11-12, 07:02 AM
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I have been researching this a bit and hopefully someone can tell me this is correct.

1. The above pictures are the result of additive synthesis. For the frequencies to be restored after passing through the DAC, it would need to perform some form of subtractive synthesis and this just is not required for driving a speaker???

2. Polyphony - or playing to Wav files on separate threads will result in additive synthesis during DSP with normalization to prevent clipping. Is this accurate?

3. Channel separation - This is the only way to get true independent frequencies output in the electrical signal??? (such as 440Hz on left, 261.626 on right) Is this accurate???

vk6kro
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#4
May11-12, 11:24 AM
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VLF Transmission Using Soundcard


At any point on the wire, there can only be one voltage at a time. So you can't get two waveforms independently. You will get a additive sum of the two.

This doesn't mean the carriers are lost and you could still recover each one with suitable filters. A suitable filter would be a radio receiver.

Note that this is not a mixer and you would not produce sums and differences of the two waveforms.
sru2
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#5
May11-12, 04:21 PM
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If I get you right the use two signal generators, one at 2Hz and the other at 2Hz, outputted to a cable will create a signal on the cable that will be a combination of both??? ...and this can be separated by a bandpass filter at the receiver.

What happens in the case of a PCM? The following waveform is the product of combining a 2Hz, 1Hz and 1Hz sine waves. (ignore the clipping for now)



Each frequency would not be delivered separately to the cable. Does this matter? Will it still separate in the bandpass filter at the receiver?
vk6kro
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#6
May11-12, 07:49 PM
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You would have to exclude inputs of the same frequency as these would possibly cancel each other out if they are out of phase and of the same amplitude.

Once they were cancelled, there would be nothing left and you couldn't recover the original components.

Near where I live, there are two AM broadcast stations that use the same antenna. They just use filters to stop the other signal coming back into their transmitter.
The antenna is a 100 ft high tower on swampy ground near a river, so this is valuable enough to make the elaborate filtering worth while.
sru2
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#7
May12-12, 02:28 AM
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How about PCM? As I said earlier:

Each frequency would not be delivered separately to the cable. Does this matter? Will it still separate in the bandpass filter at the receiver?
vk6kro
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#8
May12-12, 03:02 AM
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PCM means Pulse Code Modulation?

No, it only applies to sinewaves. PCM is made up of square waves which have a complex structure of harmonics. So, it would not be possible to filter them and recover the original signals.

Such signals could be sent on the same wire, though, if they are used to modulate carriers of different frequencies.
sru2
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#9
May12-12, 03:19 AM
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Quote Quote by vk6kro View Post
PCM means Pulse Code Modulation?

No, it only applies to sinewaves. PCM is made up of square waves which have a complex structure of harmonics. So, it would not be possible to filter them and recover the original signals.

Such signals could be sent on the same wire, though, if they are used to modulate carriers of different frequencies.
I don't think a PCM is composed of square waves. A PCM takes a sample of the electrical signal as periodic intervals. I can use the sine wave above, in PCM format, to create a carrier wave for a radio signal by pushing directly to an amplifier and antenna.

As you said earlier, only one voltage can be present on the cable, so rather than getting multiple signals we get complex waveform that can be filtered later.

A PCM file that uses additive synthesis to merge different sine waves, should be the same as the complex waveform we would get on the cable. Thus, it should separate the same way at the receiver.
davenn
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#10
May12-12, 03:26 AM
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Quote Quote by sru2 View Post
I don't think a PCM is composed of square waves. A PCM takes a sample of the electrical signal as periodic intervals. ..............
a PCM signal is a digital representation of an analog signal
so by definition its a square wave

Dave
sru2
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#11
May12-12, 03:30 AM
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Quote Quote by davenn View Post
a PCM signal is a digital representation of an analog signal
so by definition its a square wave

Dave
Yeah, I was just thinking about it, but I was wondering about the slew rate on the output, does the signal have time to drop to 0?
sru2
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#12
May12-12, 04:52 AM
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Ok, I did some digging on pulse chain carrier waves, which is exactly what the PCM would be, and according to the following book as long as the frequency of pulses is twice that of the frequency of the signal, it will work.

Modern Dictionary of Electronics
By Rudolf F. Graf

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=o...ave%22&f=false

That means with a standard sound card, with a sampling rate of 44100, we should be able to transmit signals up to 22.5Khz without issue.

Using OFDM, we can get around the issue of harmonics and extract our frequencies with a bandpass filter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthog...n_multiplexing

The PCM file acts as the mixer in the following document:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a...page&q&f=false

That is confirmed on page 32 of this document:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...8DqQiGYQi5OlQw

At this point, I am not too concerned with sidebands, just multiple sine waves.
sophiecentaur
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May12-12, 08:18 AM
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Quote Quote by davenn View Post
a PCM signal is a digital representation of an analog signal
so by definition its a square wave

Dave
That's a bit of an over-simplification. Very few properly engineered PCM signals are square waves. A digital signal that actually has 'square edges' is grossly under-using the available bandwidth.
The Symbols on a digital signal carry information about Discrete digital values but, for example, a '1' could possibly have a whole range of analogue values from 0.5V to 1.4V and a '0' could have analogue values from -0.5V to 0.49V, depending on the filtering used and the earlier and later binary values in the stream. It is always up to the demodulating circuit to filter and 'slice' to find the actual digital value of the binary data. Google Digital Eye Patterns.
sru2
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#14
May12-12, 08:53 AM
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I suppose these questions need to be asked:

1. Is the output of the DAC a continuous sine wave, or a quantized representation of a sine wave?

2. If quantized, does this carry the same properties of a continuous sine wave, in that, it will produce a radio wave at the frequency of the sine wave?
sru2
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#15
May12-12, 09:53 AM
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Well, I found two articles on this:

http://mwrf.com/Articles/ArticleID/22873/22873.html
http://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/Sho...&CommonCount=0

Both appear to suggest that the resolution provided by a modern DAC is sufficient to be pumped directly into an amplifier. I'm sure at these low frequencies, harmonics won't be an issue and would be well above the frequencies of interest.

This document on SDR transmitters appears to suggest the same:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...OdwrLdQWyUSqkg

Anyone see a reason this would not apply to DACs in a sound card?
sophiecentaur
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#16
May12-12, 10:22 AM
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Quote Quote by sru2 View Post
Well, I found two articles on this:

http://mwrf.com/Articles/ArticleID/22873/22873.html
http://www.wirelessdesignmag.com/Sho...&CommonCount=0

Both appear to suggest that the resolution provided by a modern DAC is sufficient to be pumped directly into an amplifier. I'm sure at these low frequencies, harmonics won't be an issue and would be well above the frequencies of interest.

This document on SDR transmitters appears to suggest the same:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...OdwrLdQWyUSqkg

Anyone see a reason this would not apply to DACs in a sound card?
However you choose to produce your electrical signal, the situation is exactly the same if the signal is exactly the same. You would, of course, need to filter your DAC output to eliminate harmonics.

Your main problem will be in building a suitable antenna to operate efficiently at your VLF frequency. You would also have a problem with Matching the antenna well at the two frequencies you plan to operate with because the antenna will be a tiny fraction of a wavelength (loop or long wire). The interference levels at VLF can be very high unless you are operating at a remote location - not a problem for submarines etc..
Did you have an idea of the sort of range your link would be working over?
sru2
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#17
May12-12, 11:05 AM
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However you choose to produce your electrical signal, the situation is exactly the same if the signal is exactly the same. You would, of course, need to filter your DAC output to eliminate harmonics.
Would this be required with a DAC from a sound card? Would it not already be filtered to audio frequencies?

Your main problem will be in building a suitable antenna to operate efficiently at your VLF frequency. You would also have a problem with Matching the antenna well at the two frequencies you plan to operate with because the antenna will be a tiny fraction of a wavelength (loop or long wire).
Agreed, do you have any solutions that may help? Something that may extend the frequency range.

I've been reading about how highly sensitive electrically short receivers can be made and I'm wondering can this be adapted for transmission. See here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...0&postcount=16

The interference levels at VLF can be very high unless you are operating at a remote location - not a problem for submarines etc..
Hopefully it won't be much of an issue.

Did you have an idea of the sort of range your link would be working over?
Initially, less than 20m. The idea is to create a slow radio link between computers.
sophiecentaur
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May12-12, 12:21 PM
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Quote Quote by sru2 View Post
Would this be required with a DAC from a sound card? Would it not already be filtered to audio frequencies?



Agreed, do you have any solutions that may help? Something that may extend the frequency range.

I've been reading about how highly sensitive electrically short receivers can be made and I'm wondering can this be adapted for transmission. See here:

http://www.longrangelocators.com/for...0&postcount=16



Hopefully it won't be much of an issue.



Initially, less than 20m. The idea is to create a slow radio link between computers.
The DAC card should be fine, followed by a fairly straightforward power amp. Presumably you would be using a duplex system with separate TX and RX channels each way. A good notch filter in each receiver should allow you to use the same antenna hardware each end.

A small receiving antenna is not so much of a problem - a ferrite rod works very well on all domestic lf/mf receivers. A transmitting antenna is more of a problem because of the incredibly low radiation resistance of short radiators. A dipole of length λ/100 has a radiation resistance of around 0.02Ω, for instance.
That article on small antennas is interesting but it doesn't seem to be practically based, dealing with reception. The basic message is the same as for any thin wire antenna - its effective cross section is massive compared with two skinny bits of wire because of what happens in the near field energy flow. The high Q of a ferrite rod coil is what makes it such a good energy collector. But ferrite would saturate at very much lower powers than you would want for your transmitter.
The way to go would probably be with a large many-turn loop antenna and there are many publications about those, although I haven't any particularly in mind.

I have just read your 20m operating distance and this makes things quite a bit different - this is extremely 'near field' for the frequencies you are planning to use and two tuned loops could work with no trouble. You don't need to be considering radiated power - just the coupling between two coils.

Interference will only be a problem when you try for longer link distances.


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