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Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

 
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May31-12, 08:16 AM   #13414

Nuclear Engineering 2012
 
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Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants


Quote by tsutsuji View Post
The 6th mid long term meeting was held yesterday: http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120528_02.html

28 May 2012 government-Tokyo Electric mid and long term response committee, steering committee (6th meeting)
...

3-5 Countermeasures for spent fuels pools
http://www.meti.go.jp/earthquake/nuc...120528_02z.pdf Check of soundness of new fuel (unirradiated fuel) in unit 4 spent fuel pool
Translation:

1/8

2/8

3/8
Attached Thumbnails
fresh fuel 1of8.png   fresh fuel 2of8.png   fresh fuel 3of8.png  
May31-12, 08:18 AM   #13415

Nuclear Engineering 2012
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Translation:

4/8

5/8

6/8
Attached Thumbnails
fresh fuel 4of8.png   fresh fuel 6of8.jpg   fresh fuel 5of8.png  
May31-12, 08:19 AM   #13416

Nuclear Engineering 2012
 
Recognitions:
Gold Membership Gold Member
Translation:

7/8

8/8
Attached Thumbnails
fresh fuel 7of8.png   fresh fuel 8of8.png  
May31-12, 09:49 AM   #13417
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
They are from the west wall of the pool, 4th floor, the same wall section which the recent announcement is showing a lower portion of in a sharp angle, the photo bottom right in
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e4hpgfA9WP...SFPMay25-7.JPG

(The photos are from the original survey of Unit 4 damages done in Nov. 2011, source:
http://photo.tepco.co.jp/en/date/201...11110_01e.html)
Perhaps I'm being too finiky but the images from 2011 don't quite show the "west wall" of the SFP as such.

The 2011 images cover the areas marked in green here.
May31-12, 10:06 AM   #13418
 
Quote by turi View Post
Thanks for the link. Does anyone know what the vertical orange "thing" in the unprocessed image is? The processed image doesn't have such an artifact. What kind of processing is done anyway? Adjustment for the distance of the radiation source from the camera?
I dont know what the artifact is but the "unprocessed" & "processed" images are framed differently so perhaps not even the same actual image. The second pair look like they ARE the same image, pre and post processing.

Link to original document
May31-12, 10:11 AM   #13419
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
I of course agree on all points above. So there's a document which includes photos for apparent documentation which are totally unsuitable as evidence for or against cracks in the context of the inquiry, but it is perfectly alright with Tepco if the reader will conclude from looking at the photos that there are no cracks there at all. In fact that appears to be the intention of the document. I am not worried about that crack, but I don't like to be bs'ed.
On the other hand, the possible crack we have observed in the 2011 images could be easily misconstrued so tepco kept it out of frame as it's not relevent to the SFP wall as such. That the possible crack we have seen is closer to the PCV than the SFP is another thing.

Edit: Of interest perhaps is that the translation I got may not be correct but the Japanese Tepco document is talking about "local bulges". not cracks.
May31-12, 10:17 AM   #13420
 
Quote by westfield View Post
Perhaps I'm being too finiky but the images from 2011 don't quite show the "west wall" of the SFP as such.

The 2011 images cover the areas marked in green here.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/...u4sfpwalls.png
Well, whatever the terminology, the 2011 photos are of the same wall section as shown in the bottom right photo in the recent Tepco announcement:
May31-12, 10:18 AM   #13421
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
Something is necessary to explain the particular damages of the SE corner of the roof.
Did anyone suggest that the extensive damage might be due to the debris falling from the explosion, a lot of which seemed to fall on the SE corner of the RB?
Or is this a different aspect of the damage we are talking about?

Marked video clip
May31-12, 10:27 AM   #13422
 
Quote by westfield View Post
Did anyone suggest that the extensive damage might be due to the debris falling from the explosion, a lot of which seemed to fall on the SE corner of the RB?
Or is this a different aspect of the damage we are talking about?

Marked video clip
I don't remember anyone suggesting that, but I've had the thought myself, however I left it at the wayside, as it did not appear to me to be sufficient to explain those extensive damages. It would seem weird to assume the fire phenomenon of that corner didn't leave its special marks of damage, as weird as assuming that tons of debris hitting the area from aloft seconds later didn't add to it.
May31-12, 11:08 AM   #13423
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
Most video footage of the explosion which have been or remain still available have been quite unfortunately re-sampled and re-compressed from an original 50Hz interlaced TV recording, to e.g. the commonly found 29.968fps on youtube. Unavoidably such a conversion produces horrible artefacts, and comes with loss and blending of the original information.

From a short lineage recording of an original TV broadcast, it has been possible to produce this animation of the first second after the blast in the original high temporal resolution. Since the original is 50 Hz interlaced, utilising both fields yields a temporal resolution of 50 fps, or 20 milliseconds per frame. You won't find this better anywhere else on internet :-)

Those of you who have taken special interest in the explosion will note particularly the extra temporal resolution at around the time of the first signs of something happening with the building.
That shows even better that little puff of white coming out of the SE corner before the orange colour of the initial explosion. nicely done.
Makes me wonder of any of that "flame" was actually inside the RB as it disassemled itself.
May31-12, 12:43 PM   #13424
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
I wonder what kind of sick paranoia has led to the blocking out of the rack number in the photo on page 5 of that document.
(It is rack number 26, if someone should want to know.)
The real paranoids are going to have a field day if they get a hold of this one. "The fuel rack that shouldn't have been there!"
May31-12, 01:29 PM   #13425
 
Quote by westfield View Post
On the other hand, the possible crack we have observed in the 2011 images could be easily misconstrued so tepco kept it out of frame as it's not relevent to the SFP wall as such.
Yeah, right. And they downsampled the photo such as to not confuse people with minor details. Saltwater in my eyes.

Speaking of details, what would be the nature of the white stains running down that part of the wall below the crack above them in the photo from the 2012 announcement? There are no stains visible in the 2011 photo of the same spot:


That the possible crack we have seen is closer to the PCV than the SFP is another thing.
Well, that depends on which end of the crack we are looking at. It is about 7 m long, and the south end of it is definitely closer to the SFP than it is to the PCV.
May31-12, 03:24 PM   #13426
 
Quote by westfield View Post
Did anyone suggest that the extensive damage might be due to the debris falling from the explosion, a lot of which seemed to fall on the SE corner of the RB?
Or is this a different aspect of the damage we are talking about?

Marked video clip

Different aspect, not impossible. Some indications:




The holes in the turbine-building can't be from columns of the east-wall, because all of them are found in place or a few meters around.
May31-12, 03:34 PM   #13427
 
Quote by zapperzero View Post
The real paranoids are going to have a field day if they get a hold of this one. "The fuel rack that shouldn't have been there!"
Grin. Here's the number tag, Tepco does not want you to see:
May31-12, 06:10 PM   #13428
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
I wonder what kind of sick paranoia has led to the blocking out of the rack number in the photo on page 5 of that document.
(It is rack number 26, if someone should want to know.)
Perhaps they're trying to avoid suggesting that that is the particular rack in question. In other words, the picture is an example, but they may pick a different rack - it seems they don't know for sure how many they are going to sample, even.
Jun1-12, 02:40 AM   #13429
 
Quote by biggerten View Post
Perhaps they're trying to avoid suggesting that that is the particular rack in question. In other words, the picture is an example, but they may pick a different rack - it seems they don't know for sure how many they are going to sample, even.
I think they have been clear about their intention to remove 2 new fuel assemblies from a rack, and to remove them from positions where an unintentional drop during the operation has low probability of damaging close by spent fuel assemblies. It is not credible that they haven't picked their favoured target positions.

Jun1-12, 07:17 AM   #13430
 
Quote by MadderDoc View Post
Speaking of details, what would be the nature of the white stains running down that part of the wall below the crack above them in the photo from the 2012 announcement? There are no stains visible in the 2011 photo of the same spot:
Previous white stains or liquid on some stuff in the upper parts of reactor 4 were very likely the anti-scatter material that they sprayed all over that and some other buildings last year. But I am unsure if this is the explanation in this case, since I don't know when the 2011 photo was taken.
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