Manned mission to Mars

russ_watters

Quote by rorix_bw

I disagree with those 2 premises. Private sector space flight is here already, but hasn't reached Mars yet. What makes you think a national science mission project will be first to land?

Barely. There has been exactly one commercial spaceflight (not counting Virgin). They have a long way to go to catch up.

D H

Quote by russ_watters

Barely. There has been exactly one commercial spaceflight (not counting Virgin). They have a long way to go to catch up.

While there has been only one private venture that docked with the International Space Station, there have been dozens and dozens of commercial space flights. The communications satellite industry is a private industry in the US and in other countries. Those private communications satellites are put into orbit by private launch companies.

mfb

Quote by Vanadium 50

The problem is that you can't just drop two guys in a tin can on the surface. You need to send a rocket so they can get back. A Delta II weighs about 200,000 kilograms, so you're talking hundreds of billions.

Moon escape velocity is 2,4km/s, mars escape velocity is 5,0km/s. An orbit is 1/sqrt(2) of this value. This has to be delivered by chemical rockets, sure. From orbit, 1-1/sqrt(2) (~1.4km/s) deltav is required to reach escape velocity, and 0.9km/s more to reach a Hohmann transfer orbit.
An ion drive with 1N thrust can accelerate 10 tons of mass to +2.3km/s within 9 months. Actually the ion drives would require a bit more delta-v, as they cannot be used like conventional rockets (short burn to change orbits). Obviously too much, but we are just off by a factor of ~10. As ion drives have exhaust velocities of several 10 km/s, the fraction reaction mass / total mass is small (<10%) and this system (together with everything else not needed on the surface) can stay in mars orbit all the time.

*drbanner*

Quote by rorix_bw

The cost of space missions is going to drop sharply once there is orbital infrastructure. So much power and thrust is needed to escape earth vs starting from a space station in orbit.

Agreed. We cannot always predict how fast our technology or what new invention could alter or speed up technology in one area vs. another.

It will at first more than likely be a combination reusable system; i.e., rail gun (electromagnetic rail system) or some other system (lighter than air balloon, scramjet, etc) with a smaller cheaper rocket for the secondary stage. NASA proposal to the President:

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...acecraft-orbit

A fixed infrastructure, with low cost delivery to orbit, will exponentially accelerate the space program.

SpaceDreamer

The Martian polar ice caps may be ideal depending on the mission duration as they could provide a source of water for the crew and the water could possibly be used as radiation shielding. It may also be a good spot to search for life on Mars.

Hercuflea

I've always thought the bottom of the Valles Marineris would be a good spot for a permanent colony. This would be the area on mars where the atmosphere is most dense, which would facilitate in-situ resource utilization. Settlers could dig into the side of the canyon for radiation shielding. The only problem is there may not be any water there, but could be imported by pipeline from a base at the north pole or synthesized with imported hydrogen and oxygen from the atmosphere.

jambaugh

Quote by Hercuflea

I've always thought the bottom of the Valles Marineris would be a good spot for a permanent colony. [...] but could be imported by pipeline from a base at the north pole or synthesized with imported hydrogen and oxygen from the atmosphere.

That's a long way to build a pipeline, for that level of resource expenditure you can use the piping material more efficiently.

As far as digging in for shielding, you can do that anywhere. Just dig down or pile up loose debris. Also importing hydrogen would be another issue...(why go to Mars if you have to import your hydrogen, just build in the asteroid belt.)

I don't think you're wrong about Valles Marineris, just about the solutions. I think trucking in ice might be more practical until exploration uncovered nearer sources. One could design a robotic truck with a crusher conveyer to dig into the ice and then compact to refreeze the results into unit blocks. Stack 'em and haul 'em out. This could be done remotely prior to manned landings so there's a guaranteed startup supply. Once on site any hiccups in supply could be resolved without it being a desperate situation.

Hercuflea

I think one of the most pressing questions is, how will settlers on Mars grow food? It can't be sustainable to have to constantly ship in foodstuffs for more than a few settlers.

(why go to Mars if you have to import your hydrogen, just build in the asteroid belt.)

Better yet...Europa. It's the most earthlike place in the solar system.

jambaugh

Quote by Hercuflea

Better yet...Europa. It's the most earthlike place in the solar system.

You mean 2nd most Right? ; )

brenan

I'd suggest a supply chain of ramscoop robots visiting the gas giants to mine for materials that
could be used at the base.

Obviously it would take a while to get the first supply but it would be interesting to see what you get
and could do with it. (I have a lot of faith in chemists and engineers)
I suspect this might be a good way to avoid the gravity well issue at least to some degree?

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SpaceDreamer	The Martian polar ice caps may be ideal depending on the mission duration as they could provide a source of water for the crew and the water could possibly be used as radiation shielding. It may also be a good spot to search for life on Mars.

brenan	I'd suggest a supply chain of ramscoop robots visiting the gas giants to mine for materials that could be used at the base. Obviously it would take a while to get the first supply but it would be interesting to see what you get and could do with it. (I have a lot of faith in chemists and engineers) I suspect this might be a good way to avoid the gravity well issue at least to some degree?