Japan Earthquake: nuclear plants

mscharisma

I can't read Japanese, but EX-SKF blog reported/commented on the Mainichi Shinbun article(s) regarding the death, according to which TEPCO announced the cause as myocardial infarction. Personally, I would like to see an autopsy as to what caused the heart attack. The information TEPCO apparently provided that it was not radiation-related without further detail as to the cause of the heart attack does not satisfy me - to say the least. But that discussion probably doesn't belong in this forum. Anyway, you may find further info here:
http://ex-skf.blogspot.it/2012/08/fu...-year-old.html

Shinjukusam

What would you even expect to see?

zapperzero

I'd expect at the very least whole body counts and blood work for all the dead - as opposed to dose tallies based on the readings of personal dosimeters which may or may not have been covered with lead sheets.

Shinjukusam

But the symptoms of radiation poisoning don't include dropping dead in the manner of minutes, so, Occam's.

tsutsuji

Actually the NHK does not say "presumably". Please consider my informations as short summaries or notes taken down after reading the NHK article rather than exact translations. More accurately, the NHK says:

死因は、心筋梗塞とみられるということです。

The cause of death [of the 22 August dead employee] is viewed as being a myocardial infarct, it was said.

福島第一原発では、去年３月の事故のあと、これまでに４０代から６０代の男性作業員４人が心筋梗塞などで亡くなっています。

At Fukushima Daiichi NPP, after the March 2011 accident, until now 4 male workers in their 40s to 60s have died of myocardial infarct etc.

Rive

Occam is not in the game here. IMHO it's not 'we have better, nicer explanation' time but 'the person did not get more radiation than his record' time.

Occam plays when explanations gets too complex. But here we need knowledge about something what's not there. (I hope it's not there. I even think it's not there. But I can't be sure. )

zapperzero

I have not claimed that they dropped dead from prompt doses, so you're fighting a strawman here.

Sure, exposure to radiocesium may or may not have direct, immediate effects on the cardiovascular system (iirc there was a study after Chernobyl, never repeated though).

Sure, they were old and frail and doing hard work (which is a health&safety violation in and of its own, but I digress). The issue, as I see it, is that the doses they got may or may not have contributed to their deaths - and we can't tell.

Shinjukusam

Okay...now you're just being paranoid.

zapperzero

zapperzero

Thank you so very much for the clarification.

mscharisma

As far as I'm concerned, that statement hits the nail on the head. If nothing else, Japan has - unfortunately - the opportunity and technology to do extensive studies, and it doesn't seem to be happening. Or at least not publicly, anyway (that I know of). Why on earth wouldn't deaths be further examined and investigated?
I don't think it has anything to do with being paranoid if one becomes inquisitive or even suspicious about that. Especially in light of the exposed practice to cover dosimeters or simply not wear them as necessary, a thorough examination should be done in this type of case to, at the very least, stop the practice of "cheating" with the dosimeters.

tsutsuji

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-...823/index.html In consequence of the dosimeter lead cover problem that was revealed last month, Tepco made an investigation on radiation exposure management and found 24 cases such as workers losing their dosimeter, or forgetting to carry it. In 19 cases workers lost their dosimeter on the work area or while changing clothes, and in 5 cases they forgot to take a dosimeter in the first place. Tepco made estimates of the radiations received by these workers, and the worst case is estimated to be 0.72 mSv for a 3 hour long work. On 10 August 2012 Tepco initiated a dosimeter checking policy, but on 16 August, one case was found where a worker had lost his dosimeter. Tepco said they want to intensify the recurrence prevention policy.

mscharisma

As long as it is Tepco (or any other NPP operator) who makes investigations and provides statements that employee health problems/deaths are not radiation-related, they are, imho, pretty much meaningless. Too much self-interest involved. In fact, the entire accident management and mitigation procedures should have been overseen by an independent, preferably international body from day 1 or at least asap thereafter.

tsutsuji

http://www.meti.go.jp/committee/noti...120823003.html The 9th mid and long term meeting is scheduled on Monday from 10:00 to 12:00 AM at Tepco's main office in Tokyo.

SteveElbows

Hope something interesting is discussed on Monday, since there isnt very much new information to talk about these days.

In the meantime, this webcam video shows workers on top of the equipment pit crane of reactor 4, and an additional section of the southern platform around reactor 3 building being put into place. The actual movement into place of this piece occurs about half-way through the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w01H3xl3aiA

jim hardy

i've worked in nuke protective coveralls in 110degF environment before and it is VERY stressful.

There's zero cooling from evaporation because of high humidity so you sweat soaks the coveralls. Tepco workers are likely wearing plastic over the cotton coveralls . Just imagine yourself inside an oven roasting bag, doing heavy phisical work.....

it's a game for young men or men who've built up copoius stamina through years of intense physical labor.

that middle aged people are having heart attacks is not at all surprising to me.

i been there

old jim

tsutsuji

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/genpatsu-...827/index.html Tepco started today (27 August) the visual inspection of the removed fresh fuel assemblies from unit 4 pool. They removed the metal tube and washed the fuel, and seen from the side no conspicuous damage or deformation was found. On the day after tomorrow they will check the handle part and the fuel itself. They will also check the second fuel assembly.