Should the church be taxed?

Cinitiator

Any non-charitable income of the Church (that is, that isn't provided for charitable causes - spreading religion is *not* a charitable cause at all) should be taxed at a medium rate of about 35%.

Jack21222

I haven't argued that churches should have to do charity in order to be a tax-exempt non-profit, so I am in complete agreement there. I do still maintain that they should have to file paperwork to prove they're non-profit (just like every other non-profit), and they should follow the rules barring them from endorsing political candidates (and when they break the rules, the IRS should enforce them).

I think it's a violation of the establishment clause to say religious non-profits are exempt from filing while secular non-profits aren't.

Cinitiator

All the non-charitable income should be taxed though. Even if you play a role as a non-profit charity but only use, say, 40%, or even 65% of that income for charitable causes then your non-charitable income should still be taxed. And all the funds dedicated to spreading religion, homophobia, etc. should be taxed equally at, say, a rate of 35%.

russ_watters

Business income doesn't get taxed: only profit.

Jack21222

I have to disagree with this, because the rules would get complicated and I can imagine some grey area about exactly what spreading your religion is. Just treat all 501c3 organizations the same.

Dickfore

This.

SunnyBoyNY

Not all non-charity related funds are spent on missionaries. I can write about the local RC church here on our block-- masses are free though most people donate a few dollars here and there. To my understanding, most money is redistributed back into society through the priest- I believe some people in need might get cash, others get free food. Russ Watters mentioned Red Cross -- while I agree with him on most points, Red Cross does not really help people on the street in thus city but church does. Winters here in upstate NY are tough.

I am not sure I would tax a local church when the priest does not have enough money to fix the roof.

On the other hand, when one looks at the opulent city of Vatican, one gets doubts about money flow.

This is a tough nut to crack, really.

Ben Niehoff

This I didn't know. That changes the game a little.

Gokul43201

Do you think churches should be exempt from having to file paperwork to show they have zero business profit?

Jimmy Snyder

A church is a non-prophet?

russ_watters

Meh, dunno. I can see the IRS wanting to reduce their paperwork and they wouldn't get much out of having such paperwork filed. Is that really a big issue though?

There is a good reason why you would treat a church differently from, say, the Girl Scouts: Churches are mostly self funded while the Girl Scouts operates much more like a business, drawing substantial income from selling products.

As I said before, people (not you specifically) are really shooting from the hip here, having no idea what they are talking about and just making stuff up as they go. I can't fathom what people are envisioning a church's finances look like, but most of this discussion is nonsensical, or at best, just inapplicable. We're discussing baseball, but talking about touchdowns and baskets and penalty kicks.

I think the problem here is people just have no idea how a corporations work and what the tax implications are.

For example:

My homeowner's association is a 501c corporation...and we don't do any charity. If there's money left over from our landscaping and snow removal at the end of the year, where do people think that money goes? Even if it got distributed to the homeowners, it would just be a rebate of fees paid. In reality, it goes into a fund for next year.

Our association has no 3rd party "owners" who could take our profits, if such profits existed.

Jack21222

But churches are different, particularly so-called "mega-churches" down south. Or the church of Scientology. There are plenty of people that could pocket large amounts of profit from a church.

I still maintain it's a violation of the establishment clause to give churches special benefits over similar secular organizations.

DavidSnider

We're not talking about honest-to-goodness local churches that use the funds to keep a roof up. We're talking about megachurches, like Creflo Dollar or Scientology. It's a whole different ball game.

russ_watters

Who is "we?" The OP says nothing about megachurches. And just who do you guys think might be profiting? Jack, you say they are different: HOW?

DavidSnider

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...oney-to-fl-gov

russ_watters

What point should I be getting from that link?

Jack21222

How is a church different from a homeowners association? You said that your homeowners association has no owners that could take a profit if such profits existed. Churches do. I thought that was very obvious.

If you want specific examples of somebody who could potentially take profits out of a church, consider Craig Groeschel. Now, I am NOT accusing him specifically of doing any such thing, but it is an example of a person who would be in a position to do something if he were unethical, unlike your homeowners association who has no such person.