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Apocalypse not

by Andre
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Andre
#1
Nov23-12, 06:28 AM
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That's an interesting google with interesting reads

But how to deal with all those people in the environment, who are dead sure about it. Not only the active prophets, but also maybe ones siblings and children are among the quiet or vocal believers. You can't just remove those from you life, because of the fundamental disagreement. I read that on 22 December none of the believers will be elated that we're still there, thankful to those who kept the world running. They'll invent just a new End-of-the-World-as-we-know-it.

So what are the socialogical/psychological 'forces' behind that apocalypsm and what can we do about it?
Phys.Org News Partner Science news on Phys.org
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Evo
#2
Nov23-12, 11:06 AM
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Andre, which of those links did you wish to discuss?
Andre
#3
Nov23-12, 03:16 PM
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Oh the idea is to figure out the best way how to discuss this with true believers, who you want to remain friends with. And that can be quite a challenge.

So I'd like to encourage everybody to have a look at this and imagine how to convince your mum, kid, that it's all shear nonsense.

More later. A lot more.

micromass
#4
Nov23-12, 03:47 PM
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Apocalypse not

Quote Quote by Andre View Post
Oh the idea is to figure out the best way how to discuss this with true believers, who you want to remain friends to. And that's quite a challenge.

So I'd like to encourage everybody to have a look at this and imagine how to convince your mum, kid, that it's all shear nonsense.

More later. A lot more.
I wouldn't try to convince anybody. It's a waste of time. The beliefs are irrational and you can't argue with them. I gave up a long time ago since such arguments almost broke the family apart.
Andre
#5
Nov23-12, 03:56 PM
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Quote Quote by micromass View Post
I wouldn't try to convince anybody. It's a waste of time. The beliefs are irrational and you can't argue with them. I gave up a long time ago since such arguments almost broke the family apart.
I know. Been there, done that. I was just looking for the right and most striking appeal to logic and sense.
Chi Meson
#6
Nov23-12, 04:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
I was just looking for the right and most striking appeal to logic and sense.
Well there's your problem!

The phrase "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up," is not a joke unfortunately. True believers (of anything) consider such a mindset to be virtue.
Andre
#7
Nov23-12, 04:29 PM
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Quote Quote by Chi Meson View Post
Well there's your problem!

The phrase "Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up," is not a joke unfortunately. True believers (of anything) consider such a mindset to be virtue.
Couldn't agree more. So how many more millenia do we need to figure out that it's not?
micromass
#8
Nov23-12, 05:33 PM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
Couldn't agree more. So how many more millenia do we need to figure out that it's not?
You won't ever be able to convince everybody. There will always be crazies and wacko's. But a lot of people have figured it out. Scientists figured it out and advance boundaries every day. It's the best we can hope for.
Evo
#9
Nov23-12, 07:16 PM
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Quote Quote by phinds View Post
I love you Evo, but you are being ridiculous on this one. That date will come and go as have many other similar ones and the true believers will just recalibrate their sundials or whatever and go right on believing in nonsense.

EDIT ... as they always do.
There's a reason for what I said.
lisab
#10
Nov23-12, 07:53 PM
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I've found that once someone believes they are on a holy mission, it's a waste of time trying to talk reason.
edward
#11
Nov23-12, 08:08 PM
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Quote Quote by lisab View Post
I've found that once someone believes they are on a holy mission, it's a waste of time trying to talk reason.
Take my sister in law please. Holidays are always fun with the doomsdayers. I offered her $300 cash for her house yesterday and she refused. She must be waiting for a higher offer.
dlgoff
#12
Nov23-12, 08:09 PM
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Quote Quote by Evo View Post
We only need until next month on the 21st.
... to learn,



Evo
#13
Nov23-12, 08:24 PM
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Quote Quote by dlgoff View Post
... To learn,



lol!!
russ_watters
#14
Nov24-12, 12:45 AM
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Don't try to convince them, just stall them for four more weeks.
Andre
#15
Nov24-12, 01:09 AM
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Still I believe there is a gradual scale between passionate preaching prophets with a holy mission, strong convinced believers, just believers because friends believe it and doubters who don't speak up preventing damage to their network. It's that social mechanism that I wanted to browse and understand.

I once could convince somebody that there are no chemtrails. So all is not lost.
ImaLooser
#16
Nov24-12, 01:35 AM
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Quote Quote by Andre View Post
Still I believe there is a gradual scale between passionate preaching prophets with a holy mission, strong convinced believers, just believers because friends believe it and doubters who don't speak up preventing damage to their network. It's that social mechanism that I wanted to browse and understand.
This interests me too. It is a difficult area to research, many will not you the truth. Actions quite often do not match professed beliefs. My thinking is that true believers are rare, but there is no way to tell by observation. I think you would find that most do not put their money where there mouth is.
jtbell
#17
Nov24-12, 01:51 AM
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It might be instructive to consider the case of Harold Camping and how he apparently dealt with the failure of his end-of-world prediction last year.
Andre
#18
Nov24-12, 03:22 AM
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Thanks, that's interesting case. I think that also "Heaven on Earth: The Varieties of the Millennial Experience" of Richard Landes is worth a try.

This part of the description caught my eye:

This long-awaited study shows that many events typically regarded as secular--including the French Revolution, Marxism, Bolshevism, Nazism-not only contain key millennialist elements, but follow the apocalyptic curve of enthusiastic launch, disappointment and (often catastrophic) re-entry into "normal time."


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