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Matter generating magnetic field

by Ruptor
Tags: field, generating, magnetic, matter
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Ruptor
#1
Dec8-12, 06:32 AM
P: 18
A moving electron makes a magnetic field so moving matter that is full of electrons should make a magnetic field. Magnetars are a cosmic example but has a magnetic field ever been measured from a moving object on earth.
An experiment that springs to mind is the 200lb gyroscope that Professor Laithwaite, the inventor of the linear motor did, where he couldn't lift it but once it was set spinning he could raise it above his head with one hand.
Could this be that the spinning gyroscope generates a magnetic field like a magnetar and alters gravity.
Laithwaite always believed there was something going on with the gyroscope but was ridiculed by the narrow minded establishment like all geniuses.
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MikeGomez
#2
Dec8-12, 08:09 AM
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Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
Laithwaite always believed there was something going on with the gyroscope but was ridiculed by the narrow minded establishment like all geniuses.
Really? The "narrow minded establishment" ridicules all geniuses? Then they would have ridiculed Einstein, Feynman, Bohr, DeBroglie, Maxwell, Rutherford, and Plank just to name a few.

The fact is that Laithewaite made a huge blunder with his Royal Institution lecture. Here is an excellent site that explains the gyroscopic behaviors in Laithewaite's lecture.

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~hemh/gyroscopes/video6.html
Ruptor
#3
Dec8-12, 11:42 AM
P: 18
Anybody have any idea whether moving matter creates a magnetic field? Perhaps the overall neutral charge means no charge is being moved so no field.

Khashishi
#4
Dec8-12, 12:33 PM
P: 886
Matter generating magnetic field

We've understood magnetic fields pretty well since the 1840s. Moving charge (current) creates a magnetic field. Moving neutral matter doesn't create a magnetic field.
Ruptor
#5
Dec9-12, 01:50 PM
P: 18
It sounds right when you put it like that but iron doesn't have any charge and yet the structure of electrons in iron can be arranged to give a magnetic field. So if one spins a different element fast enough that has orbiting electrons they would be forced out or their orbits would be stretched slightly resulting in dipoles and then a magnetic field would exist from the periphery to the centre of rotation. It might be the case that the rotation speed would destroy the element before stretching occurred but in theory it should happen since the electrons are not attached. The best element to use would probably be copper or one that has readily freed electrons.
dipole
#6
Dec9-12, 03:44 PM
P: 433
Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
It sounds right when you put it like that but iron doesn't have any charge and yet the structure of electrons in iron can be arranged to give a magnetic field. So if one spins a different element fast enough that has orbiting electrons they would be forced out or their orbits would be stretched slightly resulting in dipoles and then a magnetic field would exist from the periphery to the centre of rotation. It might be the case that the rotation speed would destroy the element before stretching occurred but in theory it should happen since the electrons are not attached. The best element to use would probably be copper or one that has readily freed electrons.
If you think so, and since you seem to already understand the mechanism, then do the calculation and prove it. You really don't get to make a wild claim, then ask others to prove you wrong when you've done no work yourself.
Drakkith
#7
Dec9-12, 06:50 PM
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Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
It sounds right when you put it like that but iron doesn't have any charge and yet the structure of electrons in iron can be arranged to give a magnetic field.
The structure cannot just be "arranged" to do this. It is an intrinsic property of iron and a few other materials. Most materials cannot be made into a permanent magnet.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroma...n_of_magnetism

So if one spins a different element fast enough that has orbiting electrons they would be forced out or their orbits would be stretched slightly resulting in dipoles and then a magnetic field would exist from the periphery to the centre of rotation. It might be the case that the rotation speed would destroy the element before stretching occurred but in theory it should happen since the electrons are not attached. The best element to use would probably be copper or one that has readily freed electrons.
Nope. The electrons will not be forced out of their orbits. They are bound to their nuclei or occupy the conduction band of the metal.
Ruptor
#8
Dec10-12, 07:12 AM
P: 18
Quote Quote by dipole View Post
If you think so, and since you seem to already understand the mechanism, then do the calculation and prove it. You really don't get to make a wild claim, then ask others to prove you wrong when you've done no work yourself.
All I am doing is asking questions assuming that experts here will already know the answers and offering ideas if I don't get the explanations. Isn't that the point of forums so one can learn? If I don't get answers then I pursue it on my own.
Has there ever been an experiment that spins a disc of copper and measures for a magnetic field at the periphery?
Ruptor
#9
Dec10-12, 07:27 AM
P: 18
Quote Quote by Drakkith View Post
Nope. The electrons will not be forced out of their orbits. They are bound to their nuclei or occupy the conduction band of the metal.
The electrons form a cloud around the nucleus and clouds are not fixed. The frog suspended in a magnetic field is a classic demonstration that dipoles can be created within atoms that are not ferromagnetic.
http://www.physics.org/facts/frog-really.asp
If there is an electron it can be moved by a magnetic field but I was asking if angular momentum could also distort or stretch the electron clouds not detach electrons.
Jasso
#10
Dec10-12, 12:58 PM
P: 102
Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
All I am doing is asking questions assuming that experts here will already know the answers and offering ideas if I don't get the explanations.
You have already been given answers by the others in this thread. They have told you that moving neutral matter does not generate magnetic fields, and gave you a reference to where you can learn more about magnetism. You then go on to argue with the people you are asking help from. That is not the behavior of someone who just wants answers.

Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
The electrons form a cloud around the nucleus and clouds are not fixed.
No, the "cloud" is a probability cloud, meaning that there is a probability of finding an electron at a certain spot. This is not the same thing as literally making a cloud around the nucleus. Those electrons are still either bound or in the conduction band. Moving around the object isn't going to change that.

Quote Quote by Ruptor View Post
The frog suspended in a magnetic field is a classic demonstration that dipoles can be created within atoms that are not ferromagnetic.
http://www.physics.org/facts/frog-really.asp
If there is an electron it can be moved by a magnetic field but I was asking if angular momentum could also distort or stretch the electron clouds not detach electrons.
That demonstration shows the property of diamagnetism. It is an extremely weak effect caused by the interaction of an external magnetic field with the orbital magnetic dipole of the electron. It is not the creation of a new dipole in matter, but a modification of the orbital dipole already present.
berkeman
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Dec11-12, 05:05 PM
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