Expressing sol. of Poisson eqn. in terms of vol. and sur. integrals.

In summary, the conversation discusses the correct formulation of an equation for electrostatics, specifically ∅= (1/4πε) ∫dv [ρ-∇.P]/[|r-r'|] + (1/4πε) ∫da [ρ-P.n]/[|r-r'|]. The individual terms in this equation are explained and compared to other equations in Jackson's Electrodynamics, leading to the conclusion that the equation is not entirely correct and that the correct formulation involves solving the macroscopic Maxwell equations with appropriate boundary conditions. The physical interpretation of the equation is also discussed, but it is noted that it is not practical for solving real-world problems.
  • #1
phys_student1
106
0
Hi,

Referring to Jackson's Electrodynamics 3ed, page 197, line 5.

He assumes that the magnetization can be divided into volume part and surface part, thus generating eqn 5.100. This is fine.

In a straightforward way, I wanted to do the same but for electrostatics, eqn 4.32:∅= (1/4πε) ∫dv [ρ-∇.P]/[|r-r'|] (integral is over all space).

So is this correct:

∅= (1/4πε) ∫dv [ρ-∇.P]/[|r-r'|] + (1/4πε) ∫da [ρ-P.n]/[|r-r'|]
(1st is a vol. integral, 2nd is a sur. integral)

Note that the first term in the second eqn. is not the same as 4.32, in 4.32 integration is over all spave (which includes vol. and sur), while the first term in the second eqn. is over vol only.

Thanks in advance.
 
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  • #2
Why I am asking this is because Jackson provide:

eqn 5.97 then "generalize" it to 5.100
eqn 5.102 then "generalize" it to 5.102
eqn 4.32...nut no generalization...

So I am seeking the "missing link", although I understand that it "may" be purely academic and not useful in practice.
 
  • #3
you can transform the second term in 4.32 by using divergence theorem to a surface term but you have to be careful.
 
  • #4
So is my equation correct?
 
  • #5
No,I am saying that ∇.p term which is with vol. element can be written in term of surface integral by using divergence theorem but there is an extra 1/|x-x'| factor with which you have to be careful.
 
  • #6
Sir, my question is: is my equation above correct (y/n).
 
  • #7
No,it is not.
 
  • #8
Why? Or, what is the correction, then?
 
  • #9
I don't really understand your problem, but let's try.

It's always good to go back to the microscopic Maxwell equations to understand what's going on physically. For electrostatics those read
[tex]\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{E}=\rho, \quad \vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}=0.[/tex]
I use Heaviside-Lorentz (i.e., rationalized Gauß units), which is the physically most convenient system of units (without the conversion factors as in the SI).

Now, one applies this to the macroscopic matter. For a non-conducting dielectric without any external charges and electromagnetic fields you have an overall neutral medium, consisting of positively charged atomic nuclei and bound electrons. When you now apply an electrostatic field, these electrons are not free to move, because we assume a non-conducting medium. For small deviations from their stationary state you can assume that they are harmonically bound and thus the electrons are slightly shifted according to the applied field. This results in the polarization of the material. Thus the total electric field consists of the applied field and the polarization:
[tex]\vec{E}=\vec{E}_{\text{ext}}-\vec{P}.[/tex]
The sign of the polarization [itex]\vec{P}[/itex] is convention (in the analogous case of magnetics its opposite for historical reasons). Taking the divergence gives
[tex]\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{E}=\rho_{\text{ext}}-\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{P}=\rho.[/tex]
Here, [itex]\rho_{\text{ext}}[/itex] is the charge distribution used to create the external electric field and [itex]\rho[/itex] is the total (microscopic) charge distribution.

Since for not too strong external fields we can assume the binding of the electrons to be harmonic, we can assume that the polarization is proportional to the total electric field, i.e.,
[tex]\vec{P}=\chi \vec{E}.[/tex]
Conventionally one sets [itex]\vec{E}_{\text{ext}}=\vec{D}=(1+\chi) \vec{E}=\epsilon \vec{E}[/itex] and calls [itex]\epsilon[/itex] the dielectric constant.

Back to your question. For the total electric field we have
[tex]\vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}=0[/tex]
This implies that you can express the electric field as the gradient of a scalar potential:
[tex]\vec{E}=-\vec{\nabla} \Phi.[/tex]
Gauß's Law then implies
[tex]-\Delta \Phi=\rho.[/tex]
Thus we simply need the Green's function of the Laplacian to get
[tex]\Phi(\vec{x})=\int_V \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \frac{\rho(\vec{x}')}{4 \pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.[/tex]
Here we assumed for convienience that the charge density is bounded to a finite region [itex]V[/itex].

Now let's investigate the part of the electric field coming from the polarization. Here we need the expression
[tex]\frac{\vec{\nabla}' \cdot \vec{P}(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}=\vec \nabla' \cdot \left ( \frac{\vec{P}(\vec{x}')}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|} \right )-\vec{P}(\vec{x}') \cdot \vec{\nabla}' \frac{1}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.[/tex]
Using also
[tex]\vec{\nabla}' \frac{1}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}=+\frac{\vec{x}-\vec{x}'}{|\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|^3}[/tex]
we finally get, using Gauß's integral theorem
[tex]\Phi(\vec{x})=\int_V \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x}' \left (\frac{\rho_{\text{ext}}(\vec{x}')}{4\pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|} + \frac{\vec{P}(\vec{x}') \cdot (\vec{x}-\vec{x}')}{4 \pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|^3} \right ) - \int_{\partial V} \mathrm{d} \vec{A}' \cdot \frac{\vec{P}(\vec{x}')}{4 \pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.[/tex]
The second term vanishes, of course, if the volume encloses all charges since then [itex]P(\vec{x}')=0[/itex] along the boundary of the volume. If you just take a finite dielectric body as the volume, this term is important since it describes the field caused by the surface charge due to the polarization.

The physical interpretation of the above equation is clear: The electric field consists of the original one (given by the integral over the term proportional to the external charge distribution [itex]\rho_{\text{ext}}(\vec{x}')[/itex]), the sum over all dipol fields from the polarization of the medium, [itex]\propto \vec{P}(\vec{x}')[/itex], and finally the above surface term (if applicable) from the surface charges due to the polarization of the medium. This explains the physics of dielectrics quite clearly, but in practice these considerations are not very useful, because you don't know the polarization beforehand but you have to determine it "self consistently". That's why one rather solves the macroscopic Maxwell equations
[tex]\vec{\nabla} \cdot \vec{D}=\rho_{\text{ext}}, \quad \vec{\nabla} \times \vec{E}=0, \quad \vec{D}=\epsilon \vec{E},[/tex]
which also imply appropriate boundary conditions at surfaces between different kinds of matter (e.g., the boundary of the dielectric to vacuum/air, etc.). Together with these boundary conditions you can solve the problem for [itex]\vec{D}[/itex] and [itex]\vec{E}[/itex] uniquely and afterward can calculate the polarization, using [itex]\vec{P}=\chi \vec{E}=(\epsilon-1) \vec{E}=\vec{D}-\vec{E}[/itex].
 
  • #10
Thank you very much.
 

1. What is the Poisson equation and why is it important in science?

The Poisson equation is a partial differential equation that describes the relationship between the distribution of matter in a given space and the gravitational potential associated with that matter. It is important in science because it has many applications in various fields such as electromagnetism, fluid mechanics, and quantum mechanics.

2. How is the solution of the Poisson equation expressed in terms of volume and surface integrals?

The solution of the Poisson equation can be expressed as the sum of a volume integral over the source of the potential and a surface integral over the boundary of the source. This expression is known as the Green's function and is a fundamental tool in solving the Poisson equation in various physical systems.

3. What are the advantages of expressing the solution of the Poisson equation in terms of volume and surface integrals?

Expressing the solution of the Poisson equation in terms of volume and surface integrals allows for a more intuitive understanding of the physical meaning of the solution. It also allows for more efficient and accurate numerical calculations, as well as the ability to generalize the solution to different boundary conditions.

4. Are there any limitations to expressing the solution of the Poisson equation in terms of volume and surface integrals?

One limitation is that the solution may become more complex and difficult to interpret for more complicated boundary conditions. Additionally, the use of volume and surface integrals assumes that the potential is continuous and differentiable, which may not always be the case in real-world situations.

5. How is the solution of the Poisson equation used in practical applications?

The solution of the Poisson equation is used in many practical applications, such as calculating electric and magnetic fields in electronic circuits, predicting the behavior of fluids in pipes and channels, and modeling the distribution of dark matter in the universe. It is also used in solving problems related to heat transfer, diffusion, and elasticity.

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