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Archery Qestion about balance

by JAG1118
Tags: archery, balance, qestion
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JAG1118
#1
Dec31-12, 01:11 AM
P: 15
I have been shooting both a Vertical Crossbow and a Horizontal Crossbow, I find that I shoot the vertical crossbow (off hand or free hand, without a rest) much more accuratlly than I shoot the Horizontal Crossbow, Is there a technical reason why? Most all vertical compound bow shooters (shooting in the traditional style, drawing by hand and releasing) out shoot horizontal crossbow shooters in contest (freehand). I have taken the same bow and shot it both ways and my results were the same. Is this because of gravity pulling on a wider surface or object, the limbs being horizontal, is causing more instability? Is shooting in the vertical position creating more of a "plumb bob" effect?
Take a look at the web site for more information,
www.verticalcrossbow.com please look at the "In-Line Crossbow" page
Please help,
Jerry
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Alfang
#2
Dec31-12, 01:22 AM
P: 7
Having shot both styles of bow myself, I have an opinion. It's easier to sight down the arrow of a classic style bow, for me. But it comes down to practice
JAG1118
#3
Dec31-12, 08:44 AM
P: 15
Quote Quote by Alfang View Post
Having shot both styles of bow myself, I have an opinion. It's easier to sight down the arrow of a classic style bow, for me. But it comes down to practice
We are not talking "Tradional Archery" and looking down the arrowwhen shooting, we are using sights. All things being equal, is there a difference because of some force of nature acting on the object being held in the two different position, vertical vs horizontal?

Jerry

CWatters
#4
Dec31-12, 04:44 PM
P: 3,135
Archery Qestion about balance

Take the human out of the equation. Set up a "robot".
JAG1118
#5
Dec31-12, 05:51 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by CWatters View Post
Take the human out of the equation. Set up a "robot".
You guy's are not getting what I am asking. I know a crossbow shot horizontally is just as accurate if it is shot in a vice, "a bow, is a bow, is a bow" This is a balance qusetion, holding and shooting the two bows by hand held methods.
I have compared it to holding a 48" rod vertically and horizontally. In vertical it is easier to control and move around than in Horizontal. Why? Try it yourself

Jerry
Alfang
#6
Dec31-12, 06:51 PM
P: 7
Jerry, we have been trying to address your accuracy issue.

Your balance issue your asking seems to me an issue of needing more practice.

Assuming your grip on the bow is centered at the balance point of your bow.

Perhaps Ted Nugent can explain better than us :)
JAG1118
#7
Dec31-12, 08:25 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by Alfang View Post
Jerry, we have been trying to address your accuracy issue.

Your balance issue your asking seems to me an issue of needing more practice.

Assuming your grip on the bow is centered at the balance point of your bow.

Perhaps Ted Nugent can explain better than us :)
Alfang,
Watch this Video and tell me if I need more practice to be accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IWUuX2kBks
Alfang
#8
Dec31-12, 08:37 PM
P: 7
well I'm done trying to help you, I don't know what your asking anymore.

To answer your question, If your comfortable with your skills shooting a pumpkin at 100 yards, that's all that counts, My self, I'd keep going till I got a group into an apple, But I was a Marine Sniper so I expect a lot from myself.
berkeman
#9
Dec31-12, 08:42 PM
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Quote Quote by JAG1118 View Post
We are not talking "Tradional Archery" and looking down the arrowwhen shooting, we are using sights. All things being equal, is there a difference because of some force of nature acting on the object being held in the two different position, vertical vs horizontal?

Jerry
Do you notice a difference in sight movement between the two orientations as you hold and release? If your sight wander is the same between the two, maybe there is a difference in the tolerance of the jump in the hold for the two orientations...?
JAG1118
#10
Dec31-12, 09:15 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by Alfang View Post
well I'm done trying to help you, I don't know what your asking anymore.

To answer your question, If your comfortable with your skills shooting a pumpkin at 100 yards, that's all that counts, My self, I'd keep going till I got a group into an apple, But I was a Marine Sniper so I expect a lot from myself.
That would be best. You are not answering my question. The question has to do with balance and control when holding the same object vertical vs horizontal in this case a (bow).
And, if there were any formulas, studies etc... that might explain what is best and how force might be distibuted on it to make the a difference.
Thats all,
berkeman
#11
Dec31-12, 09:23 PM
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Quote Quote by JAG1118 View Post
That would be best. You are not answering my question. The question has to do with balance and control when holding the same object vertical vs horizontal in this case a (bow).
And, if there were any formulas, studies etc... that might explain what is best and how force might be distibuted on it to make the a difference.
Thats all,
Mellow out. People are just trying to help you. Please answer my questions in my reply.
JAG1118
#12
Dec31-12, 09:44 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by berkeman View Post
Do you notice a difference in sight movement between the two orientations as you hold and release? If your sight wander is the same between the two, maybe there is a difference in the tolerance of the jump in the hold for the two orientations...?
No, the sights are not the issue. I use a simple pin and a peep when shooting in the vertical position and use a powered scope in Horizontal, the same bow. As I stated before, vertical, compound bow, shooters typically out shoot horizontal, crossbow, shooter. I am wondering if it has to do with the vertical orientation being more balanced and controllable than horrizontal. There has to be some studies performed on objects V vs H. I figured someone on this sight would know the answer.
Thank you,
jim hardy
#13
Dec31-12, 10:15 PM
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Is shooting in the vertical position creating more of a "plumb bob" effect?
That was my first thought, but ..........
I'll guess it has to do with relationship of handgrip to cross member.

In one configuratoin they're both in vertical plane
and in other handgrip is vertical but crossmember horizontal, so center of handgrip is more closely in line with cg of whole bow i'd think..

Probably one of those "couples" we studied in freshman physics.


just a guess, hope it triggers somebody's thinking cap.

old jim
JAG1118
#14
Dec31-12, 10:28 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by jim hardy View Post
That was my first thought, but ..........
I'll guess it has to do with relationship of handgrip to cross member.

In one configuratoin they're both in vertical plane
and in other handgrip is vertical but crossmember horizontal, so center of handgrip is more closely in line with cg of whole bow i'd think..

Probably one of those "couples" we studied in freshman physics.


just a guess, hope it triggers somebody's thinking cap.

old jim
Now your getting it!
That is what I am looking for, but some documented or publiished proof that it is or something like is true.
Please keep trying,
Jerry
berkeman
#15
Dec31-12, 10:58 PM
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Quote Quote by JAG1118 View Post
No, the sights are not the issue. I use a simple pin and a peep when shooting in the vertical position and use a powered scope in Horizontal, the same bow. As I stated before, vertical, compound bow, shooters typically out shoot horizontal, crossbow, shooter. I am wondering if it has to do with the vertical orientation being more balanced and controllable than horrizontal. There has to be some studies performed on objects V vs H. I figured someone on this sight would know the answer.
Thank you,
With respect, you did not answer the specific questions in my reply. I am a championship pistol shot, and a pretty accomplished vertical compound bow shot. I think I can help answer your questions, but only if you answer my specific questions.
jim hardy
#16
Dec31-12, 11:01 PM
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Thanks Jerry

i jumbled thoughts while typing....

CG and handgrip's center of effort are more closely aligned on a vertical bow i'd think, draw a view from rear.....


but it's not yet clear in my head how all those torques sum up.
I'm not one of the sharper tacks here at PhysicsForum ,,
and it's past my bedtime.

Do you conciously twist on the handgrip to keep bow vertical, and push it sideways for aim? Those two actions will interact differently on the two configurations, i think, due to couples..

Will look in again. I learn a lot that way.

EDIT Berkeman IS among the sharpest here - listen well to his input.
And i've never shot one of those things.

old jim
JAG1118
#17
Dec31-12, 11:26 PM
P: 15
Quote Quote by berkeman View Post
With respect, you did not answer the specific questions in my reply. I am a championship pistol shot, and a pretty accomplished vertical compound bow shot. I think I can help answer your questions, but only if you answer my specific questions.
Hi Berkman,
Please ask me the question in a different way, I answered the best I understood it. But as I said
sighting is not the issue. I am trying to prove that vertical, compound bow, shooters are out shooting the horizontal, crossbow, shooters due to shooting a vertical bow and it being more balanced and controllable because it is V and not H. Is that your experience? or have you not shot any crossbows before?
Alfang
#18
Jan1-13, 01:54 AM
P: 7
I think your chasing your tail, I don't know where you get your data or idea that one type of bow is better than another and that there's a scientific reason for it.

If you give me the horizontal cross bow which you think is harder to shoot, and let me practice for a couple weeks I'd shoot it as good as you with your choice of bows.

Maybe it's more simple, Maybe the better shooters with tons of practice and experience just feel more comfortable with a vertical bow, so that's what they shoot, they'd probably be just as good with a horizontal bow.
And help us out here, are you a competition shooter? or just plinking around with your buddies?


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