Using magnetism to control the structure of concrete

In summary: Nickel tetracarbonyl is a colorless liquid and the most toxic substance found in industrial processes. Nickel carbonyl is a toxic and corrosive compound with a toxicity index of 25.”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_tetracarbonyl
  • #1
lostminty
82
0
So this is my idea:

make concrete using iron sand, preferably one with a decent ferromagnetic interaction.

As the concrete sets, apply a magnetic field. The ferromagnetic particles align to the field creating a structure within the concrete.

Possible to coat the iron sand in a retarding agent, like sugar, to slow the development of bonds which has an effect of improving strength.

Hopefully this will produce a concrete that is still cheap with good tension performance, particular in bending.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
  • #2
What is the point of forming such a structure?

Try the fiber concrete technology, it may be interesting
 
  • #3
lostminty,

Interesting proposal! True, if you add powdered iron, for example, into your concrete mixture and then apply a magnetic field while it cures there will be a pattern of iron particles fixed in the concrete. But grains are not connected to one another, so they will not add any tensile strength when the concrete cures (hardens).

Your suggestion “to coat the iron sand in a retarding agent, like sugar, to slow the development of bonds...” does not make any sense to me.

In our science museum experiments to visualize magnetic fields we have used iron filings (powdered iron) mixed in liquid jello (say, yellow in color). We then fixed a strong magnet outside the plastic container. This causes the particles to align themselves along the magnetic field lines. Then we put the whole thing in the refrigerator and waited for the jello to “set”. Then when removing the magnet we could see the particles fixed along the magnetic field lines easily. Now, if you imagine similar action in the concrete mixture, you can imagine there is no interconnected structure, so there would be no change in the tensile strength of the concrete. Concrete is not considered to be a flexible material, so bending does not seem to be possible.

Don’t let this deter you from trying new ideas! There is an old saying “Necessity is the Mother of Invention.” That means when you come across a problem and invent a new solution, this is innovation! Keep on experimenting! Don’t be shy about posting your questions or doubts here on Physics Forums. Members here are always ready to assist a true searcher wanting to learn more science.

Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
  • #4
Bobbywhy,
You would be a great teacher if not already you are.

It's very important to provide proper motivation for those creative youngs, who has the fountain of ideas. Most of that ideas has no proper grounding due to unsufficient knowledge and luck of experience. It's easier to criticise, targetting self-confidence, which mostly leads to idea-generating blocking, rather than critic review.

By the way, magnetizm structurizing may do solid in a bit differ condition:

About 200C and some pressure there is a reactions: Fe(CO)5 <=> Fe+5CO

If we put Fe(CO)5 or Ni(CO)4 at those conditions and in a magnetic field, then will slightly increase temperature, I suppose it may produce a microfibre on the domain scale.
Doing the same in 3 steps for XYZ dimensions probably may produce stable skeleton?

(Beware of the Fe(CO)5 and especially Ni(CO)4 high toxicity)
 
Last edited:
  • #5
Graniar said:
Bobbywhy,
You would be a great teacher if not already you are.

It's very important to provide proper motivation for those creative youngs, who has the fountain of ideas. Most of that ideas has no proper grounding due to unsufficient knowledge and luck of experience. It's easier to criticise, targetting self-confidence, which mostly leads to idea-generating blocking, rather than critic review.

By the way, magnetizm structurizing may do solid in a bit differ condition:

About 200C and some pressure there is a reactions: Fe(CO)5 <=> Fe+5CO

If we put Fe(CO)5 or Ni(CO)4 at those conditions and in a magnetic field, then will slightly increase temperature, I suppose it may produce a microfibre on the domain scale.
Doing the same in 3 steps for XYZ dimensions probably may produce stable skeleton?

(Beware of the Fe(CO)5 and especially Ni(CO)4 high toxicity)

Graniar, thanks for the kind words.

The two homoleptic metal carbonyls you mention are precursors of thousands of organometallic species. Do you have any evidence that these materials would form stable skeletons? Why would you want to reinforce concrete with these dangerous poisonous volatile compounds? Have you investigated how concrete is now reinforced commonly? Will you please offer some rational justification for your proposal?

Iron pentacarbonyl is a yellow liquid trigonal bipyramidal molecule and is toxic. If inhaled it may cause lung irritation, toxic pneumonitis, or pulmonary edema.
From Wikipedia:
“When heated Fe(CO)5 converts to Fe3(CO)12, a green solid.” (and not to Fe + 5CO.)
“Fe(CO)5 is toxic, which is of concern because of its volatility (vapour pressure: 21 mmHg at 20 °C). Iron pentacarbonyl Like other metal carbonyls, Fe(CO)5 is flammable.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_pentacarbonyl

Nickel tetracarbonyl, a tetrahedral molecule is a colorless liquid and the most toxic substance found in industrial processes.
From Wikipedia:
Nickel carbonyl may be fatal if absorbed through the skin or more likely, inhaled due to its high volatility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_tetracarbonyl

Cheers,
Bobbywhy
 
  • #6
Bobbywhy said:
Do you have any evidence that these materials would form stable skeletons? Why would you want to reinforce concrete with these dangerous poisonous volatile compounds?

Sure, I wouldn't!
Just thinking about possible improvement of that experiment in your scientific museum, you mention above.

Have you investigated how concrete is now reinforced commonly?

I think, the fiber concrete technology is best when local strength needed.
Otherwise ordinary ferroconcrete is better for strength/cost ratio.
 
  • #7
Nevertheless, there may be a reason to produce metall aerogel from carbonils without any magnetic fields
 

1. How does magnetism affect the structure of concrete?

Magnetism can influence the orientation and arrangement of particles in concrete, leading to changes in its overall structure and properties. This is known as magnetic field-assisted processing (MFAP) and has been shown to improve the strength, durability, and other mechanical properties of concrete.

2. What is the process of using magnetism to control the structure of concrete?

The process involves subjecting wet concrete to a magnetic field during its curing stage. This allows the magnetic forces to act on the particles and align them in a desired orientation. The strength and direction of the magnetic field can be adjusted to achieve the desired changes in the concrete structure.

3. What are the potential benefits of using magnetism to control concrete structure?

Some potential benefits include increased strength and durability, improved workability, and reduced cracking and shrinkage. This can lead to longer-lasting and more sustainable concrete structures, as well as cost savings in construction and maintenance.

4. Are there any limitations to using magnetism in concrete?

While MFAP has shown promising results in laboratory studies, it may not be suitable for all types of concrete and construction projects. The use of magnetic fields can also be limited by the size and shape of the concrete structure, and the availability of specialized equipment.

5. Is there any ongoing research or development in using magnetism to control concrete structure?

Yes, there is ongoing research and development in this area, with a focus on optimizing the process and exploring its potential applications. Some researchers are also investigating the use of alternative magnetic materials and methods to further improve the effectiveness of MFAP in concrete.

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
500
  • Electromagnetism
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
7
Views
4K
Replies
4
Views
8K
  • Other Physics Topics
Replies
0
Views
682
  • Atomic and Condensed Matter
Replies
5
Views
7K
Replies
1
Views
10K
  • Beyond the Standard Models
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
8
Views
4K
Back
Top