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To be spok or to be kirk

by phoenixthoth
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phoenixthoth
#1
Sep11-03, 07:02 PM
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there are two ways to run a ship. be a spok or be a kirk.

what is the ship? the ship is the vehicle leading (presumably) towards higher truth.

the spok side, in case you're not familiar with old school star trek, is this: to discount sensory data and rely on abstract thought and pure reason and logic to arrive at higher truth. the principle vehicle is science with the backup tool of philosophy.

the kirk side is this: to use and expand awareness: awareness of self, reality, and God. emotion, perception, intuition, mixed with human right brained logic are the tools. the vehicles are psychology, inward introspection, relying on sensory data and perceptions (including the sixth sense), personal experience, and world history and lessons learned from ďwiseĒ teachers.

i started my adult life at the age of 17 (a decade ago) by fully adopting the spok approach. i studied mathematics for i thought it would lead me to higher truth. i became an agnostic, abandoning my beliefs in Christianity and the God concept. i had no emotions at all for i believed them to be unreliable sources of information.

then, almost overnight, i became a kirk. i went fully into being a human; i relied on my current understanding of things and accepted my skant evidence as enough to get me started on the voyage. i used my awareness as a tool and i didnít discount all sensory data. i started having hallucinations which enriched the life experience and gave me insight into myself.

now iím in a position to have BOTH tools. left and right brain. intuition and logic. i think this should be the approach to higher truth.

what do i currently hold as the principle higher truths: well, the tip of the iceburg is this: there is a God and there is a way to communicate with it. that is all for now.

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
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megashawn
#2
Sep11-03, 07:19 PM
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Well, I find it funny because while reading through this that I had the mind set of both. However, in doing such, I cannot understand a being of infinite love and power, when the world is in such disarray. I've never lost touch with my emotions, so I can't identify with you there. I basically go on the premise that if you don't know, and can't prove it, its probably not true. That making a decision and considering it valid, based on ignorance is not a good way to find this "higher truth".

And have you ever considered that maybe the only "higher truth" is that we always remain ignorant of something?
phoenixthoth
#3
Sep11-03, 07:27 PM
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"I basically go on the premise that if you don't know, and can't prove it, its probably not true."

i think that's a rather presumptive assumption. ok, maybe it is "probably" not true, but that's a far cry from DEFINITELY not true.

in math, we do the following. we pose a question we don't know the answer to without knowing how long it will take to solve the problem. spend a week trying to prove the conjecture. if unsuccessful, spend a month trying to disprove it. if unsuccessful, spend a year trying to prove it. if unsuccessful, spend a decade trying to disprove it. onward and onward it goes until both fronts of the war converge on the enemy which is ignorance.

i have considered the possibility that the only higher truth is that we will always be ignorant. however, to accept this premise is to give up the journey. accept that and live the literal life of a janitor; so be it.

cheers,
phoenix

Hurkyl
#4
Sep11-03, 07:50 PM
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To be spok or to be kirk

What about Picard?
phoenixthoth
#5
Sep11-03, 07:56 PM
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i have a lot of respect for picard but my favorite is the man on deep space nine. he answered positively to become a general in the war on the dominion (with an insidious advisor who was as sly as a snake). i consider myself to be a budding general on a war on ignorance. i have no idea where to begin this war of words with little hope that i will make a difference. i big problem is that i am ignored (just the beginning of the word ignorance).

may your journey be graceful,
phoenix
Hurkyl
#6
Sep11-03, 08:25 PM
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I like Picard (and ST:TNG in general) the best because it emphasized respect for values and principles.

Which, I suppose, reflects my differing opinion about the failings of society; I think the bulk of the problems we face today, including ignorance, stems from an ever increasing comprimise of values for the sake of self-indulgence.
phoenixthoth
#7
Sep11-03, 08:52 PM
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i'm willing to be considered insane (to theoretically sacrifice my sanity while actually purifying myself of delusion) to push the fight on ignorance.

they say ignorance is bliss. to heck with that: i say knowledge is purer bliss.

some greek dude once said the unexamined life is not worth living; i wholeheartedly agree.

cheers,
phoenix
drag
#8
Sep12-03, 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Hurkyl
I like Picard (and ST:TNG in general) the best because
it emphasized respect for values and principles.
That would be my choice as well. But the "Kirk" approach
can certainly work better when the situation calls for
extreme measures and finding the "third" solution for an
answer (that's probably my Klingon side talking ).

Live long and prosper.
Hurkyl
#9
Sep12-03, 12:29 PM
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That heavily depends on if you believe the ends justify the means or vice versa.
drag
#10
Sep12-03, 05:15 PM
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Which, in turn, heavily depends on the "ends" which
is usssualy quite justifying for most "means" aspecially
in the original series.

Peace and long life.


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