Composite numbers and squares from recursive series

**ramsey2879** · Mar9-06, 11:41 PM

This has to do with the 2nd order recursive sequence $LaTeX Code: \\{...a, b,<BR>c ...\\}$ where a,b,c are any three sucessive terms and

.
I found that it has the following property.

LaTeX Code: 8ab - (a+b-k)^2 = 8bc - (b+c-k)

That is eight times the product of two adjacent terms always equals the square of the difference between

and the sum of the adjacent terms plus a number that is independent of three sucessive terms of the series are chosen.

A related property is the following. Again it is independent of which three sucessive terms of this sequence is chosen.

LaTeX Code: 8a(a+k) - (b-3a-k)^2 = 8b(b+k) - (c-3b-k)^2

The proof of both is by induction
The proof of the first relation follows:

LaTeX Code: 8ab - (a+b-k)^2 = 8bc - (b+c-k)^2

$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8b(6b - a +2k) - (7b - a + k)^2$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = (48-49)b^2 -a^2 -k^2 +(-8 +14)ab +(16-14)bk +2a$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8ab -(b^2 +a^2 +k^2 +2ab -2bk -2ak)$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8ab -(b+a-k)^2$

Thus the above property is proven.

Now if

is a triangular number for the first two terms of a
sequence, to make the product

to be a triangular number regardless of which pair of adjacent terms $LaTeX Code: a \\text{and} b$ are in the sequence, we need to select a "k" such that

I will leave the proof of the second part and how it relates to square triangular numbers up to the reader.

**ramsey2879** · Mar19-06, 09:41 AM

Given the 2nd order recursive sequence $LaTeX Code: \\{...a, b,<BR>c ...\\}$ where a,b,c are any three sucessive terms and

.
The following equations for composits always hold

The proof of both is by induction
The proof of the first relation follows:

$LaTeX Code: 8ab - (a+b-k)^{2} = 8bc - (b+c-k)^{2}$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8b(6b - a +2k) - (7b - a + k)^2$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = (48-49)b^2 -a^2 -k^2 +(-8 +14)ab +(16-14)bk +2ak$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8ab -(b^2 +a^2 +k^2 +2ab -2bk -2ak)$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8ab -(b+a-k)^2$

The proof of the second relation is

$LaTeX Code: 8a(a+k) -(b-3a-k)^{2} = 8b(b+k)-(c-3b-k)^{2}$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8b(b+k) - (3b-a+k)^2$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = (8-9)b^2 +(8-9)a^2 -k^2 +(8-6)bk +(8-6)ak +6ab$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8a(a+k) -b^2 -9a^2-k^2 +2bk -6ak +6ab$
$LaTeX Code: \\quad = 8a(a+k) -(b -3a - k)^2$

Now since the above relation holds for any three consecutive terms of the recursive sequence, if the product of any two terms

is a triangular number then there is a

such that

because it is known that 8 times a triangular number + 1 is always a square. But recursively from the above proven relationship, the product of any two adjacent terms of such a series where

is so defined is always a triangular number.

In the second relation let

then

for any two adjacent terms of the recursive series. As an example the first two square triangular number are 0 and 1, since

,

. Thus if b^2 is a triangular number, the next square triangular number

is found by solving

.

Although square triangular numbers are well known, I haven't found a prior publication of this relationship. Surely someone before me must have noticed it. I would appreciate it if someone could lead me to a site that does discuss this.

**shmoe** · Mar19-06, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by ramsey2879

In the second relation let then for any two adjacent terms of the recursive series. As an example the first two square triangular number are 0 and 1, since, . Thus if b^2 is a triangular number, the next square triangular number is found by solving .

Although square triangular numbers are well known, I haven't found a prior publication of this relationship. Surely someone before me must have noticed it. I would appreciate it if someone could lead me to a site that does discuss this.

Square triangular numbers can be related to solutions of Pells equation

. If

is your square triangular number, then x=(2n+1) and y=2b is a solution to Pells, and vice versa (non-negative solutions).

Your formula for getting the next square triangular number c^2 from a square triangular number b^2 follows from the usual way of generating the solutions to this equation, i.e. the solutions are given by powers of $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ , so to go to the next solution you just multiply by this. You get the same relation between c and b as you have.

**ramsey2879** · Mar19-06, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by shmoe

Square triangular numbers can be related to solutions of Pells equation . If is your square triangular number, then x=(2n+1) and y=2b is a solution to Pells, and vice versa (non-negative solutions).

Your formula for getting the next square triangular number c^2 from a square triangular number b^2 follows from the usual way of generating the solutions to this equation, i.e. the solutions are given by powers of $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ , so to go to the next solution you just multiply by this. You get the same relation between c and b as you have.

Thanks. I was aware of the relation to Pells equation but I dont see a easy way to get from the power of $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ to my relation for $LaTeX Code: a \\text{ and }b$ . Also my relation is more general since

need not equal 0 and the difference $LaTeX Code: a_{n}*(a_{n} + k)- (a_{\\left(n+1\\right)} -3a_{n} -k)^2$ need not equal -1 although it is a constant. For instance the sequence $LaTeX Code: \\{ \\dots 0, 3, 22, 133, \\dots\\} \\text{ where } k = 2$ has the property that $LaTeX Code: a_{n} * (a_{n} + k)$ is always a triangular number since the constant is -1 as is the case with square triangular numbers.

I even have a greater generalization.

where

the following relation also holds:

for every pair of adjacent terms $LaTeX Code: a \\ \\text{ and }\\ b$ ,
$LaTeX Code: \\ 8(a+n)(b+n) = (a+b + 2 - 4n)^2 + C \\text{ where } C \\text{is a constant dependent on n and}\\ n$ is any value including a complex value.

**shmoe** · Mar19-06, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by ramsey2879

Thanks. I was aware of the relation to Pells equation but I dont see a easy way to get from the power of $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ to my relation for $LaTeX Code: a \\text{ and }b$ .

It's a straightforward computation. If your square triangular number is b^2=n(n+1)/2, then $LaTeX Code: n=(-1+\\sqrt{1+8b^2})/2$ so $LaTeX Code: x=\\sqrt{1+8b^2}$ and

. Multiply $LaTeX Code: \\sqrt{1+8b^2}+2b\\sqrt{2}$ by $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ to get $LaTeX Code: blah+(2\\sqrt{1+8b^2}+6b)\\sqrt{2}$ , so your next square triangle is at c^2 where $LaTeX Code: c=\\sqrt{1+8b^2}+3b$

**ramsey2879** · Mar20-06, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by shmoe

It's a straightforward computation. If your square triangular number is b^2=n(n+1)/2, then $LaTeX Code: n=(-1+\\sqrt{1+8b^2})/2$ so $LaTeX Code: x=\\sqrt{1+8b^2}$ and . Multiply $LaTeX Code: \\sqrt{1+8b^2}+2b\\sqrt{2}$ by $LaTeX Code: 3+2\\sqrt{2}$ to get $LaTeX Code: blah+(2\\sqrt{1+8b^2}+6b)\\sqrt{2}$ , so your next square triangle is at c^2 where $LaTeX Code: c=\\sqrt{1+8b^2}+3b$

Ok that works and is a little more straight forward than my formula, thanks.
Now to resolve my formula

LaTeX Code: 8b^2+1 = (c-3b)^2 = c^2 -6cb +9b^2

$LaTeX Code: 1 = c^2 -6cb + b^2 \\Rightarrow c*(6b-c) = b^2 - 1$
I am lost as to where to go from here
But $LaTeX Code: c = 6b -a \\Rightarrow b^2-c*a = 1$
$LaTeX Code: c = \\frac{b^2-1}{a}$
Substituting c = 6b-a

$LaTeX Code: 1 = \\frac{b^2-1}{6ba-a^2}$

How about my formula

LaTeX Code: 8(a + m)(b + m) = (a + b + 2 - 4m)^2 + C

where

and

are two adjacent terms in the recursive sequence defined by $LaTeX Code: a_{n} = 6a_{\\left(n-1\\right)} - a_{\\left(n-2\\right)} - 4$ ,

is a constant dependent on m, and

is any value?
[tex]

**ramsey2879** · Mar24-06, 07:12 PM

Relation to Pathagorean triples found.
My friend wrote:
"The values of

in

where

and gcd(a,b)=1 are generated from this recurrence relation:

,

,

( see http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A001653 )
What I find interesting is that apparently all Pythagorean triples can be generated with such recurrence relations. I am far from being a mathematician, and so I cannot prove any of this.
It is sufficient to look at primitive triples where gcd(a,b)=1.
The possible values of the difference |b - a| in primitive triples are 1,7,17,23,31,... see http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A058529 .
When |b-a| = 7, we have :
c(1)=13, c(2)=17, c(3)=73, c(4)=97, c(n) = 6*c(n-2) - c(n-4)
The values of a will be generated by:
a(1)=5, a(2)=8, a(3)=48, a(4)=65, a(n) = 6*a(n-2) - a(n-4) + 14

When |b-a| = 17, we have :
c(1)=25, c(2)=53, c(3)=137, c(4)=305, c(n) = 6*c(n-2) - c(n-4)
a(1)=7, a(2)=28, a(3)=88, a(4)=207, a(n) = 6*a(n-2) - a(n-4) + 34
When |b-a| = 23, we have :
c(1)=37, c(2)=65, c(3)=205, c(4)=373, c(n) = 6*c(n-2) - c(n-4)
a(1)=12, a(2)=33, a(3)=133, a(4)=252, a(n) = 6*a(n-2) - a(n-4) + 46
and so on...
Does anyone know of an explanation please?
Regards
Andras Erszegi".

It follows from the relation

LaTeX Code: 8(a(n))^2 - (a(n+1)-3*a(n))^2 = C

where

is a constant for recursive series of the form

that I found. If you note that if any two adjacent terms of the Pell-like series {a,b,2b+a,5b+2a, … 2*a(n-1) + a(n-2) } are selected as y and x of the Pathagorean triples: x^2 + y^2, x^2-y^2, and 2xy then the value for $LaTeX Code: (x^{2} - y^{2} - 2xy)^{2}$ is a constant. Moreover, You will find that $LaTeX Code: 8{(a^{2} + b^{2})}^{2}-{({(2b+a)}^{2} + b^{2} \\text{ minus }3(a^2+b^2))}^{2} = 4{(b^{2} - a^{2} \\text{ minus } 2ab)}^{2}$ , i.e. the constant. Thus the series of c's for a constant absolute value of | $LaTeX Code: x^2-y^2\\text{ minus }2xy$ | is in the form of

.
Note that you some times have more than one such series for a constant value of $LaTeX Code: {(a^{2}-b^{2}\\text{ minus }2ab)}^{2}$ .