Can this problem be solved using conservation of mass and momentum?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a fluid mechanics problem involving a spacecraft landing on Mars, specifically focusing on the application of conservation of mass and momentum principles to determine the speed and area of air exiting the spacecraft's rotors. The problem includes considerations of forces acting on the spacecraft and the behavior of fluid dynamics in a non-constant area system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the problem can be solved using conservation of mass, noting that while area times velocity must remain constant, the area itself can vary.
  • Another participant suggests that the weight of the spacecraft is necessary to calculate thrust, indicating that additional equations may be required.
  • A participant mentions that the linear momentum equation yields a zero net force due to constant velocity, raising questions about the unsteady flow of air.
  • Another participant points out the need for clarity on the data provided in the problem, indicating that two pressure-area terms should be considered in the calculations for accuracy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of conservation laws and the completeness of the problem's data. There is no consensus on whether the problem can be definitively solved with the information provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in the problem, such as the need for additional equations related to thrust and the implications of unsteady flow, which remain unresolved.

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Can this problem be done?

I just took a test with this problem on it (50% of the test grade) but I don't know if it can even be done or not.

We have a spacecraft landing on Mars. The spacecraft is landing "steadily at 1 m/s". It's basically a conic section with a "shell" around it (picture a thick vertical cylinder with inside diameter increasing except that the hollow part is the outside, not inside). It has rotors on the bottom which pull the air through the hollow part and accelerate it and push it out the bottom to balance out the force of gravity on the craft. The speed of the air going in from top and the area of the top hollow part are given. We need to find the speed of the air coming out of the bottom and the area of the hollow part where the air comes out from the bottom.

I don't know if this problem is right or wrong because the area*velocity has to be a constant (conservation of mass), but the area itself doesn't have to be a constant, nor does the velocity.

Conservation of mass:
(pAV)1 = (pAV)2
where p is the desnsity.
The density cancels out and we're left with
(AV)1 = (AV)2
We need one (area or velocity) to solve for the other.

I'm not going to go through everything I did on the test, but just give me your thoughts about this problem.

PS. This is a fluid mechanics class.
 
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The weight was given but I never saw those equations you supplied before. I tried using the linear momentum equation but the right hand side (sigma F) was 0 since the craft was moving at a constant velocity, so no acceleration. I guess maybe the partial with respect to time term isn't 0, but that would mean the flow was unsteady.
 
This seems like a classic one dimension momentum problem. I guess I am a bit confused as to what exactly was given to you as data on the test. From what I can see you were given: Weight of the craft, speed of fluid at one area and the downward speed of the aircraft. Is there anything else that was given?

To be absolutely correct, there would be two P*a terms at the two areas that it looks like you would have to neglect in this case, but should be included in the calculations.
 

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