What will happen at the 2004 Democratic Convention?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around hypothetical scenarios regarding the 2004 Democratic Convention and the potential outcomes of the presidential election between George W. Bush and Howard Dean. Participants explore various political strategies, implications of voting technology, and the dynamics within the Democratic Party leading up to the convention.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a scenario where Bush is re-elected, but subsequent investigations reveal fraudulent voting practices in states that used Diebold machines, leading to questions about legitimacy.
  • Others argue that despite evidence of fraud, the media and Supreme Court would support Bush, suggesting a lack of accountability.
  • A participant suggests that Bush's policies would lead to significant negative consequences during his second term, including economic downturns and political upheaval.
  • There are claims that some Republicans are financially supporting Dean to weaken him against Bush, drawing parallels to historical political strategies.
  • Discussion includes the potential for a brokered convention, with uncertainty about who might emerge as a candidate if Dean does not secure the nomination.
  • Concerns are raised about Dean's communication style and its impact on public perception, contrasting it with Bush's approach.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no clear consensus on the outcomes of the election or the implications of the voting technology. Multiple competing perspectives on Dean's viability and the political landscape remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the political landscape, the impact of media narratives, and the dynamics of party support, which are not fully explored or agreed upon.

If the next election is a fraud, what will happen?

  • Civil war. Democratic party outlawed. Democratic cities used as concentration camps

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Massive civil disorder crushed by black-clad 'police.' Martial law declared. Bush becomes first out

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Sporatic protests subdued under heel of local cops. protest fails, peace resumes

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • No meaningful protests, Bush glibly continues reign, repeals 22nd amendment

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • Legal challenges against the president are successful, Bush defeated.

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • Bush Impeached, recount unfeasable- Russian style re-vote without Diebold machines

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • Total voters
    12
schwarzchildradius
Picture this scenario: November 2004. After months of mud-slinging and scripted 'debates,' Bush is re-elected in a landslide against Dean. However, in a subsequent investigation, it is revealed that all the states he won used Diebold voting machines with no paper reciepts. Every state that did not use the voting machines went to Dean. After Bush is sworn into office, investigators discover proof that the machines were rigged and the voting results are fraudulent.
What is the result?
 
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Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
Picture this scenario: November 2004. After months of mud-slinging and scripted 'debates,' Bush is re-elected in a landslide against Dean. However, in a subsequent investigation, it is revealed that all the states he won used Diebold voting machines with no paper reciepts. Every state that did not use the voting machines went to Dean. After Bush is sworn into office, investigators discover proof that the machines were rigged and the voting results are fraudulent.
What is the result?
Nothing. The media will support Bush, the Supreme Court will support Bush, and Bush will be selected once again.

RE-Elect Gore in 2004!
 
Bushies steal election in 2004, nothing happens immediately, but Bush's chickens (tax cuts, alienation of allies, etc. etc.) come home to roost in his second term. Rising indignation. Amendment requiring paper trails in voting passes quickly both in congress and the states. More chickens come in. Great world depression. Terrorists everywhere. Washington D.C. is nuked, and nobody knows by whom. Revolution of the army. Military government says 2008 elections postponed. Supreme Court bows to crisis. That's it for the U.S. of A.
 


Originally posted by Zero
Nothing. The media will support Bush, the Supreme Court will support Bush, and Bush will be selected once again.

RE-Elect Gore in 2004!

I don't think Gore will be running anytime soon, he already endorsed Howard Dean.
Another article I read is the Republicans will portray Dean as this left wing liberal so as to lower his chances. Karl Rove was alleged to be rallying support for Dean because he believes of all the candidates, Dean is less likely to win against Bush.

It will be an interesting year..
 
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I've heard that some republicans are supporting Dean financially, because of course they want to see Bush destroy him. In 1932, Republicans helped FDR win the nomination because they wanted to see Hoover destroy him. Ironic thing is, Clarke's probably the best man for the job, but doesn't have the ability to humiliate Bush in a debate that Dean does, and sooo many Democrats want to see that happen.

______________________
Nepotism--it's genetic
 
There was a New York Times article, Republicans for Dean.
You're right. Clarke is strong on National Security as well, being a West Point graduate, Rhodes scholar, former general. But he doesn't have the feistyness and aggressiveness that Dean has. Bush will crush him in the debate.

I think Dean should pick him as his vice-president, what Dean lack in security, Clarke can provide it they will balance each other out.
 
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Sorry, I don't do absurd hypotheticals. However, if I were president...
 
http://www.hermes-press.com/HDean/dean_republican.htm
The Fantasy of Rove As Cheerleader for Dean

Some progressives and liberals were perplexed by Karl Rove's July 4th seemingly off-the-cuff cheering for the Dean campaign. As a dozen backers of Dean marched in the 37th annual Palisades Citizens' Association parade, the Washington Post reported, Rove told a companion (GOP state Sen. Teel Bivins of Texas, according to the Dallas Morning News): "Heh, heh, heh. Yeah, that's the one we want. How come no one is cheering for Dean?" Then Rove urged the marchers and onlookers: "Come on, everybody! Go, Howard Dean!"

Rove later told the Morning News that he had made the remarks "with a sense of irony."

If you keep in mind that Karl Rove is the Bush junta's top propagandist, you won't waste any time puzzling over the supposed esoteric meaning of his remarks. Michelle Mitchell went to the extreme of a double-flip in a CNN interview, "If Karl Rove said that the sky was blue, I think I'd double-check, actually. . . . If he's saying he wants Howard Dean, then you know what? I'd be double-checking to see, well, why is he saying this? Maybe he really doesn't want Howard Dean. I would really be looking into anything that he happens to say."

You get the image of Karl Rove as the Evil Villain, twirling his mustache and chortling insanely to himself. Instead of wasting time trying to read Spin Meister Rove's mind, you only have to see what kind of media attention the Republican-owned media are giving Dean and then compare that with the reality of who Dean really is.
 
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you only have to see what kind of media attention the Republican-owned media are giving Dean and then compare that with the reality of who Dean really is.
Or just listen to Dean and get really confused :wink: I think Deans real problem is that he appears to be a verbal thinker...and you just can't blurt out these oddities and then correct them afterward..depending on the goodwill of the public and media to understand...what you really meant.
 
  • #10
Originally posted by kat
Or just listen to Dean and get really confused :wink: I think Deans real problem is that he appears to be a verbal thinker...and you just can't blurt out these oddities and then correct them afterward..depending on the goodwill of the public and media to understand...what you really meant.
Why not? Bush blurts out lies and then corrects them later, and he seems to do ok.
 
  • #11
Are you aware that the primary votes on the Democratic side will be evaluated through proportional representation by congressional district? This means that Carol Mosley Brown et al. will have votes to deal with at the convention. There is an outside but conceivable chance of a brokered convention, when "Anybody but Dean" meets "Dean and only Dean" with close votes. And who would be the choice of a brokered convention? (No not Hillary!).

So then Gore's dilemma is, should he support the little guys and boost the anti-Dean vote, or the opposite? He is a very smart guy, and I'll bet he has it all worked out.

But whatever, the nomination is going to be more complex than Dean beats Clark in (name your state).
 

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