Comparing Entropy: Equally Distributed Universe vs. Black Hole Universe

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Blahness
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Entropy
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around comparing the entropy of two hypothetical universes: one where matter and energy are equally distributed and another where all matter and energy is concentrated in a black hole. Participants explore the implications of these scenarios on the concept of entropy, including the conditions under which entropy increases or decreases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a black hole represents maximum entropy, while a universe with evenly distributed matter and energy represents the lowest entropy possible.
  • One participant uses an analogy of air in a room to illustrate that a uniform distribution of air (greater entropy) is more random than air compressed into a small volume (lower entropy).
  • Another participant argues that a black hole's unique properties mean that simply placing matter into it does not reduce the universe's overall entropy.
  • There is a question raised about whether energy must be provided for the formation of a black hole, suggesting a potential misunderstanding of the relationship between energy and entropy changes.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on the idea that external energy is necessary for systems where entropy decreases, linking this to the formation of black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between entropy and the states of the universe being discussed. There is no consensus on the implications of energy requirements for black hole formation or the overall entropy dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Participants' claims involve assumptions about entropy, energy, and the nature of black holes that are not fully resolved. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of entropy in different physical contexts.

Blahness
Messages
113
Reaction score
0
A universe where all matter and energy is equally distributed, or a universe where all matter and energy is in 1 spot(Universe = black hole)?
 
Science news on Phys.org
a black has maximun entropy and the big bang where everything is equally apart has the lowest entropy possible
 
Think of the air in a room with no interior walls in the room. Which condition has greater entropy: (a) all of the air in compressed into a small portion of the room, the remaining portion being vacuum, or (b) the air uniformly distributed throughout the room. The answer is (b), not (a). The room with the air uniformly distributed is in a much more random state than is the room with the air concentrated in a small subvolume.
 
but a black hole is different; if u could then u could just throw the air in the black hole and reduce the amount of entropy in the universe. and in order for entropy to increase, the big bang where everything is uniform must have the lowest entropy
 
That means energy has to be provided for the formation of Black Hole? Am I correct? I sense some mistake.
 
vaishakh said:
That means energy has to be provided for the formation of Black Hole? Am I correct? I sense some mistake.
What do you mean by providing energy?
 
Oh sorry.
I mean if a change has to occur on a system where the entropy decreases, then some external energy has to be provided. similarly some energy has to be provided for the formationof black hole since the entropy increases due to the formation of a black hole.
I assume that you understand my doubt. I don't know to make much more clearer than this.
 

Similar threads

High School How Does Entropy Relate to the Arrow of Time in the Early Universe?
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
Undergrad Validity of the Boltzmann Distribution
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
High School Ideas regarding gravity and entropy
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
Undergrad Amount of black hole entropy inside the Universe?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Undergrad Entropy Real? End of Time? - Veritasium Video
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
7K
Graduate How can entropy increase in a deterministic universe
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
6K
High School Question about the Entropy of a Black Hole Singularity
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
Graduate Equilibrium, entropy, probability - Release of constraints
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Graduate Could the Laws of Physics Be Proportional to Entropy?
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Graduate Definition of a system in Boltzmann entropy
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K