How come zero and one are so important to our number system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the significance of the numbers zero and one within various number systems, including their properties and roles as identities. Participants explore whether these characteristics are influenced by the base of the number system, such as binary or base-12, and consider the implications for number theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the importance of zero and one, noting their unique properties like identity properties and division by zero, and wonders if these are specific to base 10 or also applicable in other bases.
  • Another participant asserts that every mathematical structure typically has additive and multiplicative identities, which are useful, though not universally required.
  • It is suggested that binary, decimal, and base-12 systems represent the same numbers, differing only in their representation.
  • A participant reflects on the idea that zero and one maintain their identity properties across different number systems, indicating a need for further contemplation on the topic.
  • One participant emphasizes that while zero and one are consistent across systems like binary and hexadecimal, their roles as identities in abstract structures may not imply they are the same conceptually.
  • A final contribution highlights the complementary nature of zero and one, along with addition and multiplication, suggesting a deeper relationship between these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the nature of zero and one across different number systems, with some agreeing on their roles as identities while others question the implications of these identities in abstract mathematical contexts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader significance of these numbers.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge that the discussion may depend on specific definitions and contexts, particularly in abstract algebraic structures, which could lead to different interpretations of identity properties.

Gale
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How come zero and onw are so important to our number system? they both have oddities about them that are particular only to them... identy properties, division by zero... and whatnot. Is this because we're in a base 10 system? in say binary... are there special numbers like that? or in a base 12 system?

...should this be in number theory?
 
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Well, something has to be the additive and multiplicative identities. :smile:

Ok, that's not entirely true; not all mathematical structures have to have such identities... but identities are very useful things, and pretty much all of the important algebraic structures have them.



Also, binary, decimal, and base-12 (duodecimal, I think) numbers are all the same numbers... these are just different systems of writing them.
 
soo... one and zero retain their identitive properties even in other number systems... i suppose that made sense... same numbers... i guess there's no way to get different numbers... but hmm... how about like... i dunno... i have to think some more...
 
Well, binary, hexadecimal, et cetera are all the same numbers, so 0 and 1 are the same thing in all of them. (They're all written the same way too, of course).


But in other things, such as abstract groups, fields, and vector spaces, we still call the additive and multiplicative identities 0 and 1, but it would be misleading to say they're the "same thing".
 

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