Is Police Authority Excessively Powerful in America?

[timejim]

Yes they do. You notice I said "power", not authority. After all, they have the gun, the keys, and the cell. I do not remember giving up any Constitutional Rights, but daily, on the Tellie, you see time and time again just what is really happening. In America the only way you are Guaranteed any Constitutional Right is by the dollar. You must be able to afford the best, most expensive Lawyer there is, or else you could become a lockup statistic.

 

[russ_watters]

Tellie?

 

[motai]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Tellie?

Hmm... Seems like tellie is another word for television or telephone, most likely the former.

 

[jb]

all the time, i see cops speeding excessively. they're going so fast (sometimes 20 mph over the speed limit) that surely anybody going as fast as them would be pulled over and ticketed. today i was driving on a highway, going 50-55 mph with a speed limit of 45, and a police car went flying by me.

yesterday, i got in an accident driving (everyone's ok, except for my car), and just because I'm not 18 yet, i got a $102 ticket. just great, i get penalized (in addition to a broken car and jacked up insurance rates) because I'm a kid and i lost control due to road conditions. i know the police officer was just doing his job, and everything was required by brand new laws, but it's still CRAP!

 

[timejim]

Originally posted by jb
all the time, i see cops speeding excessively. they're going so fast (sometimes 20 mph over the speed limit) that surely anybody going as fast as them would be pulled over and ticketed. today i was driving on a highway, going 50-55 mph with a speed limit of 45, and a police car went flying by me.

yesterday, i got in an accident driving (everyone's ok, except for my car), and just because I'm not 18 yet, i got a $102 ticket. just great, i get penalized (in addition to a broken car and jacked up insurance rates) because I'm a kid and i lost control due to road conditions. i know the police officer was just doing his job, and everything was required by brand new laws, but it's still CRAP!

Hang in there, be very careful. We have more tro fear from our "police" than we do terrorists.

 

[skywise]

I also think there are a lot of cops out there who have become corrupted with power. I was in Miami in November to protest the FTAA and was absolutely shocked by the behavior of the police. They had 8.5 million dollars allotted to them from the Iraqi war budget and used it to do everything they could to keep us from excercising our right to peaceably assemble. They passed a law just for that week or so that made it illegal for 8 or more people to gather or march for more than half an hour.

They unleashed tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets shot at head level (potentially fatal), concussion grenades, tazers and of course, batons upon non-violent protesters. [b(] I don't really care what the media says, I saw it with my own two eyes.. it was a police riot. I have no doubt that many of those officers would have had no problem shooting people with live ammuntion. Cheif Timoney made his contempt for protesters quite obvious..calling them 'punks' and 'losers' in the media. I can imagine how he pumped up his officers like they were entering a war zone- complete with tanks and helicopters..

People in Overtown (poor black neighborhood), told activists that the police actually encouraged them to rob activists...told them that we were getting paid to be there..So then the cops drove us like cattle into Overtown and amazingly enough, the people there opened their homes for activists to escape the police and city busses were pulling over and letting activists on for free to escape the crazy, self proclaimed "robo-cops". It was surreal. So, even though the police are cracking down brutally on people I take comfort in knowing that there are a lot of people out their who realize this and are willing to extend themselves to help out strangers.

 

[einsteinian77]

Just for the record "**** da police"

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by timejim
In America the only way you are Guaranteed any Constitutional Right is by the dollar. You must be able to afford the best, most expensive Lawyer there is, or else you could become a lockup statistic.

Do you live in america? Have you ever dealt with the police in america? Do you even personally know anyone who's dealt with american police? Would you care to cite some examples of someone doing something constitutional and because they were poor being sent to jail instead of just speaking abstractly?

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by timejim
Hang in there, be very careful. We have more tro fear from our "police" than we do terrorists.

You really mustn't have been paying attention around 9/11, do you think some out of control cops beating random people is worse than 3,000+ people being killed in a single act?

 

[jb]

i'd rather be attacked by an outside terrorist, than be attacked by police, the very people that are supposed to protect us. if they go on the offensive, and they shoot me dead, it's all in the line of duty. if i try to fight back in self defense, i can get jailed while they get a medal.

skywise, did you happen to take pictures at the ftaa protests, or better yet, shoot video? if you did, you could really help out indy media, if not, you could still contribute what you wrote here. the more eye-witness accounts of the government/police over-stepping their bounds, the more likely the issue will be noticed by the mainstream media.

 

[wasteofo2]

That's a load of crap JB, police officers are being prosecuted right and left for excessive use of force. I'd also be interested to see if skywise took pictures or footage, or if anyone there did for that matter.

 

[einsteinian77]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
You really mustn't have been paying attention around 9/11, do you think some out of control cops beating random people is worse than 3,000+ people being killed in a single act?

No terrorist would shoot a man 42 times for pulling out his wallet while getting paid from the same country for preventing such acts from happening.

 

[skywise]

I took some pictures but as my primary goal when the sh*t was hitting the fan was avoiding teargas and rubber bullets whizzing by my head, I didn't get any candid shots of violence. Plenty of other folks risked much to get photos, however.
One of the most detailed depictions I've come across was of a woman named Nikki who was shot multiple times, including once in the head that severed part of her ear. Here's her story with photos- http://www.ladygalaxy.org/ftaa/nikkistoryframe.htm

There were several other people with headwounds from rubber bullets..
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/violence/10311923.jpg

Here's the "robo-cops" pointing their guns at eye level-
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/violence/281424.jpg

There's plenty of photos to see if one takes the time to look for them.
Here's an article about a Miami judge who saw what went down for himself and spoke up about it..
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1220-03.htm

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by timejim
Yes they do. You notice I said "power", not authority. After all, they have the gun, the keys, and the cell. I do not remember giving up any Constitutional Rights, but daily, on the Tellie, you see time and time again just what is really happening. In America the only way you are Guaranteed any Constitutional Right is by the dollar. You must be able to afford the best, most expensive Lawyer there is, or else you could become a lockup statistic.

They're just following orders. Housing is a right, not a privilege; but it is the law that you have to earn capitalist credits (money) in order to afford the privilege of legally standing on a piece of land under a roof and if you don't come through with the money then the police can drag you out into the streets and it doesn't matter what the weather is like or how many kids you have or how old you are or how much your loved ones will suffer, *nothing* matters except that they are obliged to drag you out into the street unless you can pay the rent.

Any half wit can see what is wrong with such a system but don't try to argue with the police about it or angst over how to change their behavior. They're just following orders. Also, they're recruited from the general population so they're not exactly intellects or folks who have a mind of their own (if you score too high on an IQ test you can't get into the force -- the worry is you'll get bored and quit and that would cause a high turn over rate...).

The law should recognize, sanely, that some things are rights and some things are privileges. Today, mindbogglingly, folks can't seem to tell the difference. Some of it is feeble mindedness; some of it is just mean mindedness, and some is all of the above. "Good Germans" isn't a phenomenon that took place on German soil because of a particular circumstance of history. The Good German is a human phenomenon! They make up about, I would estimate, 40% of the population. Whether or not you see their true nasty potential depends on the time and place they are born into -- social mores and peer pressure keep them in check in places like the modern day west; but put them in a set and setting like Hitlers German and they'd behave just like the so called Good Germans of Hitlers time... I'm talking about ppl. who are all around you! Surely you've observed them.

Am I cheering you up yet? ;)

 

[timejim]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Do you live in america? Have you ever dealt with the police in america? Do you even personally know anyone who's dealt with american police? Would you care to cite some examples of someone doing something constitutional and because they were poor being sent to jail instead of just speaking abstractly?

Don't have too. Examples are all over America, daily in most Media formats. How many INNOCENT have been executed? DNA has freed a number from Death Row. Like I believe, any prosecutor can convict anyone for anything if they want to. Juries are notoriously guilty of believing "circumstantial" evidence.

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by timejim
Don't have too. Examples are all over America, daily in most Media formats. How many INNOCENT have been executed? DNA has freed a number from Death Row. Like I believe, any prosecutor can convict anyone for anything if they want to. Juries are notoriously guilty of believing "circumstantial" evidence.

It must be quite an experience to be innocent, to know you are innocent, and to sit in that chair and fry. Surreal...

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by timejim
Don't have too. Examples are all over America, daily in most Media formats. How many INNOCENT have been executed? DNA has freed a number from Death Row. Like I believe, any prosecutor can convict anyone for anything if they want to. Juries are notoriously guilty of believing "circumstantial" evidence.

Someone being unjustly executed is a fault of the courts, not the police, unless a police officer testifys untruthfully, but then again anyone can lie to help get someone convicted of a crime they didn't commit.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Vosh
(if you score too high on an IQ test you can't get into the force -- the worry is you'll get bored and quit and that would cause a high turn over rate...).

I'd really like to see your sources for that information.

 

[skywise]

I've heard about the IQ requirements for police forces as well..I googled this..

Man deemed too smart for police force

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by skywise
I've heard about the IQ requirements for police forces as well..I googled this..

Man deemed too smart for police force

Yeah, I heard about this myself because I have 5 senses and I live on the planet.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Vosh
Yeah, I heard about this myself because I have 5 senses and I live on the planet.

Strange, I've those same senses and same general geographic location, yet I would have guessed the police force would have wanted smart people in their force so they could advance up in the ranks and improve the police force as a whole, guess that the people in charge don't have a high enough IQ to realize that, got to love slipery slopes.

 

[member 5645]

Originally posted by jb
all the time, i see cops speeding excessively. they're going so fast (sometimes 20 mph over the speed limit) that surely anybody going as fast as them would be pulled over and ticketed. today i was driving on a highway, going 50-55 mph with a speed limit of 45, and a police car went flying by me.

Cops are allowed to speed to get to a needed destination. The option on when they have to use their lights to do so varies by locale.
Here, it's the cops discretion.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by phatmonky
Cops are allowed to speed to get to a needed destination. The option on when they have to use their lights to do so varies by locale.
Here, it's the cops discretion.

I assume that you don't mean WalMart, right? Because that is where the local cops are usually speeding to when they blow past me at 20 miles over the speed limit. Either that, or back to the station for shift change.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Someone being unjustly executed is a fault of the courts, not the police, unless a police officer testifys untruthfully, but then again anyone can lie to help get someone convicted of a crime they didn't commit.

Actually, the police own a certain amount of the blame, since they are the ones who collect the evidence.

 

[Chemicalsuperfreak]

Every few months or so you'll hear about the cops beating or shooting somebody to death, usually black, with eye witness saying it was completely unjustified, and the cops getting off scott free. And I'm willing to bet that the ones we see and read about are just the tip of the iceberg.

Not that I'm saying all cops are bad. They're just human. And humans break laws. And power corrupts.

There's supposed to be all kinds of methods to keep corrupt cops out of the uniform but I think the system has broken down and corrupt cops run free.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by Chemicalsuperfreak
Every few months or so you'll hear about the cops beating or shooting somebody to death, usually black, with eye witness saying it was completely unjustified, and the cops getting off scott free. And I'm willing to bet that the ones we see and read about are just the tip of the iceberg.

Not that I'm saying all cops are bad. They're just human. And humans break laws. And power corrupts.

There's supposed to be all kinds of methods to keep corrupt cops out of the uniform but I think the system has broken down and corrupt cops run free.

The problem is partially that some people feel that anyone in authority is correct, especially against minorities. Plus, it always turns into a political issue, and stupid moron Repugnican media whores always take the side of cops, because they are apparently ordained by God to shoot colored and wetbacks, or some such racist nonsense.

 

[member 5645]

Originally posted by skywise

Here's the "robo-cops" pointing their guns at eye level-
http://www.hulla-balloo.com/ftaapics/violence/281424.jpg

explain to me why they should be holding them some other way.

 

[Vosh]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
Strange, I've those same senses and same general geographic location, yet I would have guessed the police force would have wanted smart people in their force so they could advance up in the ranks and improve the police force as a whole, guess that the people in charge don't have a high enough IQ to realize that, got to love slipery slopes.

Well, have you ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? A cop with an IQ of 110 and a cop with an IQ of 180 can do the same job with equal competence (the work the position calls for). You don't need to have a high IQ to do some jobs. The ppl. in charge don't want to hire ultra high IQ types because, purportedly, they would get sick of doing that kind of work and high turn over reflects badly on management. One can also wonder if other reasons don't include not wanting cops who are too smart shaking things up...
Looking at the reports of police brutality, my response isn't, "how can this happen?" Rather it is, "I can't believe it doesn't happen more often!" There is already a great deal of cop burn out. They have to deal with people and situations that surely would drive the best of us to want to beat the crap out of someone eventually. The police deal with ppl. who are depraved and stupid and don't learn from their expereinces. Ever watch "COPS"? I know I don't have the temperament to be so patient (probably helps that they're on camera) day in and day out with white trash (etc.) and all manner of 'tards. It's also worth noting that cops have to deal with the kind of ppl. who make an extra effort to create "white cop on black victim" situations. The cop who knocked that kid onto a car -- if you had x-ray vision and could see through cars you would see that the kid had grabbed the crotch of the cop standing directly behind him. This was corroborated beyond a shadow of a doubt by everyone who was on that side of the car and saw the whole thing, which is why the incident died down in the news, unlike the King incident. So when it comes to the story I saw about the cop who couldn't get on the force because he scored to high on an IQ test; he may have tested high, but I have to wonder about his intelligence. Why would an above average mentality want to do that work? Midlife crisis? Ignorance? Ofcourse, this was commercial tv doing the reporting (first time I heard of it) and so you can't assume you're getting the whole story. Incidentally, this isn't just true of the police. Filtering out for maximum and minimum IQ levels happens in other business settings, too.

 

[wasteofo2]

Originally posted by Zero
Actually, the police own a certain amount of the blame, since they are the ones who collect the evidence.

They collect evidence for arrests, so they are partially responsible for even accusing a peroson falsely, but unless a lawyer empolys a police officer as a detective or something, after the person enters trial police aren't involved except as witnesses.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by wasteofo2
They collect evidence for arrests, so they are partially responsible for even accusing a peroson falsely, but unless a lawyer empolys a police officer as a detective or something, after the person enters trial police aren't involved except as witnesses.

Dude, you should watch more Law and Order...or maybe I should watch less...

There was a case in NC recently where a man has been released after 19 years, after being falsely convicted of a rape/murder. The cops almost completely ignored other suspects, including the person who actually did it, and who was a suspect.