What is the approximate size of a Helium atom at a temperature of 10^(-9)K?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the size of a helium atom at an extremely low temperature of 10^(-9) K. Participants are exploring concepts related to atomic size, quantum mechanics, and statistical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss using the equipartition theorem and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle to estimate atomic size. There are attempts to relate temperature to atomic behavior, with some questioning the relevance of temperature in defining atomic size.

Discussion Status

Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, including the relevance of the de Broglie wavelength and its connection to Bose-Einstein Condensation (BEC). Some participants have provided calculations, while others are seeking clarification on numerical results and potential errors.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of a discrepancy between calculated values and those provided in a solution manual, indicating a need for careful examination of assumptions and calculations. The discussion is framed within the constraints of homework guidelines, emphasizing the importance of understanding rather than simply arriving at an answer.

mmh37
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Can anyone help me to find an approximation to the size of a He atom at very low temperature (10^(-9)K)?

My attempt:

At this very low temperature all electrons will be in the ground state, thus using the equipartition theorem:

[tex]1/2kT = h*c/lambda[/tex]

now, for the zero point energy, lambda is 1/2 the diameter of the Helium atom.
However, this approach does not yield the correct answer.

I have had a look at several textbooks, but couldn't find any hints in there.
Thanks a lot for your help! :smile:
 
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mmh37 said:
Can anyone help me to find an approximation to the size of a He atom at very low temperature (10^(-9)K)?

My attempt:

At this very low temperature all electrons will be in the ground state, thus using the equipartition theorem:

[tex]1/2kT = h*c/lambda[/tex]

now, for the zero point energy, lambda is 1/2 the diameter of the Helium atom.
However, this approach does not yield the correct answer.

I have had a look at several textbooks, but couldn't find any hints in there.
Thanks a lot for your help! :smile:
Temperature, being a statistical concept, is not defined for an atom. I don't see how temperature would affect the size of any atom.

But, assuming this question is asking what the uncertainty of a He atom's position would be if it had a kinetic energy in the range of He atoms in He gas at 10^-9 K, you would have to apply the Heisenberg uncertainty principle:

[tex]\Delta x \Delta p = \hbar/2[/tex]

You would have to work out [itex]\Delta p[/tex] from the energy range - which is roughly 0 < E < kT. Using [itex]E = p^2/2m[/itex] would give [itex]\Delta p = \sqrt{2mE} = \sqrt{2mkT}[/itex]<br /> <br /> So<br /> <br /> [tex]\Delta x = \frac{\hbar}{\sqrt{8mkT}}[/tex]AM[/itex]
 
I believe the question may be referring to the de Broglie wavelength (this might be the preamble to a discussion of BECs), which is of the same order as the number calculated by AM.
 
it is indeed, as the question then asks to compare this with BEC.

However, the solution manual says that d = 60 um, but with the uncertainty principle I got 2.45 *10^(-7)m ?
 
I get a number that's pretty close to 60um (I get p ~ 10^{-29} Ns). You must have made a numerical error. If you still can't find the error, post your calculation here, and someone will point it out.
 

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