Is America collapsing as previous Empires have in the Past?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of whether America is experiencing a decline similar to that of previous empires, examining various internal and external challenges. Participants explore themes related to economic stability, political polarization, immigration, healthcare, and the implications of military presence abroad.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that America is becoming economically weaker due to factors like manufacturing moving overseas, increasing taxation, and political disarray.
  • Others suggest that current problems are not unprecedented and that historical comparisons show resilience in the face of challenges.
  • Concerns are raised about the impact of immigration and public corruption on national stability.
  • One participant emphasizes that the U.S. is currently more powerful economically and geopolitically than ever before, disputing claims of decline.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of the U.S. as a superpower, with some arguing it is not a traditional empire due to its lack of territorial control.
  • Healthcare costs are highlighted as a significant issue, with some questioning whether advancements in medical technology are beneficial given their financial burden.
  • Participants express differing views on the implications of the U.S. Constitution and the potential threats to democracy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement, with some acknowledging the existence of problems while others assert that the situation is not as dire as portrayed. Multiple competing views remain regarding the state of the economy, the role of immigration, and the definition of American power.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on subjective interpretations of economic indicators and historical comparisons, which may vary based on definitions and perspectives. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of power and stability in the context of American society.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring themes of political science, economics, history, and social issues, particularly in the context of American identity and global standing.

timejim
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All of the previous Great Empires of Past eras have fallen. Conquered from outside forces but weakened by their own internal failures. Is this happening to America as we speak? I feel that it IS! We are becoming economically weaker. Manufacturing has moved overseas enmasse and is continuing to do so. Our Political system is more polarized and in disarray than ever before. Taxation is fast approaching half our incomes. Our Military is spread out all over the world. Our Political Egos have grown. Public corruption is rampant. Our National debt is staggering and growing. Immigration has overrun our Nation and Health care systems. Our borders are unprotected. The Stock Market is operating on Hype, not the soundness of Corporate strengths. On and on and on. Our young people and Grand Children will be left with NOTHING but anguish and defeat.
 
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No doubt we have problems; we always have.

Never underestimate the problems endured by those who came before you. I doubt things are any worse now than they were on Dec 7, 1941, or when our soldiers trained for WWI with broom sticks instead of guns. Also, as for economics, even our impoverished are still better off than the majority of the worlds population. Next, since we have always welcomed immigrants, immigration problems have always been with us. Political problems; was politics ever not corrupt? Taxation; what do they pay in Switzerland [for example] and other countries. One reason for the continuing increase in tax liablity is that we seek more and more from our government. In the 30s, we saw what happens when we have no social safety net.

Health care is overrun by the cost of technology. We simply can't afford the technology available. For example, my dad's medical expenses now exceed his lifetime income. In the past, someone like him would have been dead long ago; so is this an improvement of not?

The real threat to this country is found in those who don't appreciate and would re-write or undue the U.S. Constitution. This is the greatest threat to the US. We can survive economic plight, terrorist attacks, and social upheaval, but if we undermine the very foundation of democracy, then we have lost the country.

As for the collapsed British Empire, the last time I checked, Great Britain still is a powerful and wealthy country.
 
Tell me Timejim, what do you plan to do about some of these problems?
 
Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
No doubt we have problems; we always have.

Never underestimate the problems endured by those who came before you. I doubt things are any worse now than they were on Dec 7, 1941, or when our soldiers trained for WWI with broom sticks instead of guns. Also, as for economics, even our impoverished are still better off than the majority of the worlds population. Next, since we have always welcomed immigrants, immigration problems have always been with us. Political problems; was politics ever not corrupt? Taxation; what do they pay in Switzerland [for example] and other countries. One reason for the continuing increase in tax liablity is that we seek more and more from our government. In the 30s, we saw what happens when we have no social safety net.

Health care is overrun by the cost of technology. We simply can't afford the technology available. For example, my dad's medical expenses now exceed his lifetime income. In the past, someone like him would have been dead long ago; so is this an improvement of not?

The real threat to this country is found in those who don't appreciate and would re-write or undue the U.S. Constitution. This is the greatest threat to the US. We can survive economic plight, terrorist attacks, and social upheaval, but if we undermine the very foundation of democracy, then we have lost the country.

As for the collapsed British Empire, the last time I checked, Great Britain still is a powerful and wealthy country.

Yes, but Great britain is only a shell of its former self, but, then again, any Nation that has nuclear weapons is a power in that sense, but nuclear power is only a "feel good security blanket, as anyone who were to use them in anger would be committing suicide.
 
Originally posted by timejim
The Stock Market is operating on Hype, not the soundness of Corporate strengths.

Firstly, we've never been more powerful than we are today. Economically and geopolitically, we are more in control than ever before.

Secondly, what I have quoted is an outright lie. It was the 90's at which it was operating on hype, with stocks valued at 50 times the company's actual P&L. It is only now that the market is actually operating at the proper level.


Lastly, I'm sure people said the same thing during WWI, WWII, vietnam, the gas crisis, the cold war, etc. Cheer up, realism is a great thing, but pessimism breeds nothing but failure.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally posted by timejim
Yes, but Great britain is only a shell of its former self, but, then again, any Nation that has nuclear weapons is a power in that sense, but nuclear power is only a "feel good security blanket, as anyone who were to use them in anger would be committing suicide.

Britain physically conquered lands,and for that reason, she is only a shell of her former self.
The US is the least territorial superpower that has ever existed. For us, we do not need to keep control of Europe, Japan, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. for it to benefit us. A stable region means a new trading partner, and more trade with us means more economic vitality for us.
Just look to Europe, Japan, and South Korea. All three are some of the largest trading powers in the world, all three were able to succeed because of our reconstruction policy of enemies, and all three are key to our livlihood here in the states.
 
You'd get a better response if you posted this in politics and world affairs.
 
Originally posted by timejim
We are becoming economically weaker.
Not true - all economic indicators are in good shape and getting better (unemployment is the worst - its slighty high, but not really bad and is improving). GDP is growing at a huge rate.

All the rest are arguable and I'll let you have them, though in my opinion things in the US are pretty good.

In any case, I find the title of the thread peculiar as you make only passing reference in your post to the US being an empire. But to address that point, phat covers it pretty well:
The US is the least territorial superpower that has ever existed.
Tough to call the US an "empire."
Never underestimate the problems endured by those who came before you.
Things are always worse now, Ivan, because people have short attention...wait, what were we talking about?
 


Originally posted by russ_watters
Things are always worse now, Ivan, because people have short attention...wait, what were we talking about?

I think we were about to agree on something.

No wonder you got confused!
 

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