What Happens to Iron Filings at Absolute Zero When Exposed to a Magnet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of placing iron filings at absolute zero in the presence of a magnetic field. Participants explore the implications of this situation, considering both theoretical and experimental perspectives, while addressing concepts related to energy, temperature, and magnetic properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the presence of a magnetic field would introduce energy, potentially raising the temperature of the iron filings above absolute zero.
  • Others argue that if the filings could be maintained at absolute zero while in the magnetic field, they would remain unaffected due to the lack of energy at that temperature.
  • A participant questions how a magnetic field could provide energy to the filings, indicating uncertainty about the interaction.
  • One participant asserts that the question is nonsensical because absolute zero cannot be reached, introducing a philosophical perspective on the impossibility of the scenario.
  • Another participant suggests that at absolute zero, nothing moves, and any change in the environment, such as a magnetic field, would constitute an input of energy.
  • A later reply speculates on the differences in magnetic attraction between iron at near absolute zero and at room temperature, suggesting that movement would occur at a slower velocity in the former case.
  • Participants express curiosity about whether any experiments have been conducted to measure the effects of temperature on magnetic properties of iron filings.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of reaching absolute zero in a vacuum and whether all chemical reactions would cease at that temperature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of placing iron filings at absolute zero in a magnetic field. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effects of temperature and energy on magnetic interactions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the theoretical nature of the discussion, the impossibility of reaching absolute zero, and the dependence on definitions of energy and magnetic interactions. Some assumptions about the behavior of materials at extreme temperatures remain unresolved.

jimmy p
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OK i was just wondering what would happen if you had a bunch of Iron filings at absolute zero and put a magnet near to them. Would they move or would nothing happen?
 
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Just a first gues off the top o fmy head, but I think the presence of a magnetic field intruding on the filings would constitute an input of energy, raising the temperature so that they atre no longer at 0oK. But if you could get the filings to 0oK and keep them there while in the presence of a magnet, they should remain unneffected. For any change to take place requires energy, and there is no energy at absolute zero.
 
Interesting.
I wonder if this experiment has been done while using liguid nitrogen, for example, and comparing the results at normal temperatures.
 
Lol i was in a Physicsy mood yesterday and thought about it. I am not sure myself, how would a magnetic field constitute as providing energy to something?
 
It's a nonsense question. You can't reach absolute zero.

- Warren
 
where is your sense of fun? I am talking hypothetically!
 
The question cannot be answered by existing theory -- it is a singularity. Anything could happen. You could suddenly find yourself upside down, wearing your grandma's underwear. There's no way one can even speculate what will happen in a physically impossible situation.

- Warren
 
ok so no-one knows the answer...i have found my life mission.
 
Originally posted by chroot
...You could suddenly find yourself upside down, wearing your grandma's underwear... - Warren

You have that dream too huh? disturbing, ain't it?!

I think the only "hypothetical" thing we can say about absolute zero is that nothing moves. The magnetic field coming into proximity of the filing would constitute a change in their environment, therefore an input of energy.
 
  • #10
chroot, take it easy. Man, i think if this forum was real life you'd be a serial killer. i mean, sure, it is impossible...but don't get so upset.

Lets simplify and just ask how the attraction of a magnet to cold iron compares to the attraction of a magnet to warmer iron.

Besides - what's the big deal with the 'entire unpredictability of an impossible situation'? If absolute zero is similarly impossible, couldn't you similarly say that crazy things could happen such as "wearing your grandmothers underwear'?
 
  • #11
ok, seeing as this thread is getting no where, if you had iron filings at NEAR absolute zero and placed a magnet next to them, would the resultant movement happen at a slower velocity than if the same experiment was repeated at room temperature?
 
  • #12
Originally posted by jimmy p
ok, seeing as this thread is getting no where, if you had iron filings at NEAR absolute zero and placed a magnet next to them, would the resultant movement happen at a slower velocity than if the same experiment was repeated at room temperature?

Indeed, one would think so. After all, magnetic interaction on a target material is dependent, in large part, on the movement ability of the electrons within that target materials' atomic structure. So, without specific examples, I believe you are correct in concept.
I could see how a super-cooled ferrous material would have definite and different properties of potential magnetic attraction or reactivity to an outside magnetic field. Conceptually, it should be less.
Curious if any actual experiments have been done to establish effect parameters.
 
  • #13
Just curious, how is magnetic attraction measured?
 
  • #14
you WOULD be doing this in a vacuum, um, right? I hope so, because if you reaced a steady and constant tempature of absolute zero, wouldn't the air around it freeze and keep freezing all the air everywhere on the surface on the earth? Do all chemical changes/reactions stop at absolute zero?
 
  • #15
Oh yeah, of course it would be in a vacuum, don't want any pesky air ruining my plans. I would think that all chemical reactions would stop at absolute zero.
 

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