dr. phil

chrisdimassi

I like your signature, Astronuc. You would be surprised how many people drop out of math because they lose sight of the "why" to math, it's difficult not to.
Did anybody record this Dr. Phil episode? The IQ answer

In it, a young woman's mother mentioned that she was doing very well in math and her teacher did not understand what was wrong. The young lady said that she was just memorizing theorems but had no idea WHAT she was doing!
Dr. Phil's reply was something along the lines of 'maybe you just aren't cut out for math, your gift may be in something else'.
Great advice, Dr. Phil.

My question is this: do teachers really know what's happening with numbers beyond arithmetic or have they just 'memorized theorems' to get through college and get a teaching degree?

Doc Al

Note: I moved this from the tutorial section to GD, where it may get more attention. (The tutorial section for posting tutorials, not for discussion.)

chroot

Some teachers are brilliant, while others are more akin to parrots. I don't think it would be fair to make a sweeping generalizations about all teachers, do you?

Furhermore, does this thread really have a point?

- Warren

JasonRox

It's not fair to make generalizations, but being part of classes who have prospective teachers, I would have to say not very many of them know what's going. In fact, I haven't met one yet.

I'd say they don't know anything. If you don't want to generalize, let's just say that maybe 1 in 1000 know what they are doing.

Sometimes it's not what you know that makes great teachers. A teacher who cares about the individual successes of the students and who will help them explore areas they enjoy is a great teacher.

JasonRox

It's funny because I never heard anyone asking the arts teacher...

...why are we drawing pictures? We throw them in the garbage after class anyways.

...why are we playing instruments? It sounds horrible.

...why are we acting out a play? Nobody is watching.

And the list goes on for all kinds of subjects.

Ignorance gets you nowhere.

Chi Meson

I've met some brilliant parrots too.

chrisdimassi

Er, I wasn't referring to 'why we need math'. As I had mentioned with the young girl telling Dr. Phil that she didn't want to continue with math because she didn't understand it beyond the rote memorization of formulas, people need an intuitive understanding of the learning of math as opposed to an ignorance of its construction.

chrisdimassi

One in one thousand? My worst nightmare has been realized.
Yes, bravo for teachers who can teach the material in whatever way, creative or otherwise, that they can. Teachers who really care about the student's future should receive medals.
Out of over 60+ teachers from 1st-12th (I moved a lot), I can think of only two who knew how to communicate well and they were the only classes I ever made A's in.

chrisdimassi

I didn't really say 'all' teachers, I just said 'teachers'. If that means 'all teachers', well, grammar was not my strong suit. Otherwise, it's an assumption of my intentions.
Noting from what the young lady said and from my own experience, it seems to be a common occurence that many teachers do not have an intuitive understanding of what they teach.
Note I'm not referring to college professors here, necessarily (many I have met seem to be brilliant personally as well as being fully competent in imparting knowledge to students)

A good point would be: what's being done to change this in the educational system?

Cyrus

In order to teach in college you must have a PHD. For high school, you dont even have to major or minor in the subject you teach. Plus anyone worth a damn isint going to waste their time teaching to get min. wage, when they can make double the amount doing real work.

Those who can do, those who can't teach.

chroot

Your comments are indicative of a sweeping selection bias shared by, well, almost everyone: the only good teachers are the ones who gave me A's.

That's more than a little short-sighted, in my opinion. Education is difficult for the teacher, but, frankly, it must be even more difficult for the student.

- Warren

Gelsamel Epsilon

Now I wanna know if I was just recited too. o_o

I think not though, my math teacher is very good.

~Gelsamel

Moonbear

There are a lot of students who get through high school by memorizing and regurgitating without processing and understanding, not just in math. These are the students who have the toughest time adjusting to college courses, because they haven't learned to learn in high school and think they'll coast through college the same way they coasted through high school. These are the students who wind up in the instructors' offices after the first exam wondering how they only got a C or D when they've gotten As all their life.

However, a lot of what is taught at the high school level DOES require simple, rote memorization. Until you have some basics in your head, you really can't fully understand the concepts involved. A good teacher will remind the students from time to time that they are asking them to memorize something now because they have not yet been taught enough to understand the reasoning behind it, but will get to that in later courses, so they don't lose sight that there's more to it than just memorization.

One needs to realize that learning is not a linear process. You have to do a lot of doubling back and revisiting of material. High school and introductory college courses are essentially intended as an overview of an entire discipline. It's just skimming the surface to give you the big picture, and then as you get into higher level courses, you'll be able to keep the details in perspective.

It's a shame that the young lady in question has been done a disservice by discouraging her from a subject when she has realized on her own that there's more to learning than memorizing, and has developed a thirst for that higher level of learning.

As for the question of whether teachers themselves know the subject beyond the level of memorization, when you get into high school subject specialties, unless someone is being asked to teach a class that is not their specialization (i.e., the teacher certified to teach high school English being dumped into an algebra class because the school can't get a more qualified teacher), they usually choose their subject because of what interests them.

As with any profession, you will find a range of qualifications among teachers. For every outstanding teacher, there is also one who scraped by and barely met the requirements for certification.

There's a saying:
"A good teacher explains.
A superior teacher demonstrates.
A great teacher inspires."

Unfortunately for the young lady discussed in the OP, her teacher has missed an opportunity to inspire her, as has Dr. Phil, but we already know he's a hack. When a student expresses frustration with memorizing subject material without being enlightened to a higher understanding, that is the time to suggest either a tutorial to delve deeper into some of the concepts, or to do an extra credit assignment that is more challenging and requires linking concepts, or even just to sit down and explain that she's going to need to have these theorems memorized in order to tackle the conceptual part of the subject that is taught at the college level, and to just hang onto that enthusiasm for college.

Chi Meson

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

CY! I tusted you! I tusted yooooooooou!

Anyway, it's not minimum wage and we get 13 weeks off every year. I could get more money but less time off if I worked for a local acoustical engineering unit that's nearby. I chose more time.

marlon

So is Dr Phil considered to be a fake media psychologist ? Do intelligent people take him seriously ?

We have his shows on TV here but we donnot take that stuff very seriously. The entire concept of that show appears quite strange to me and many others.

marlon

chroot

I don't think anyone with any sense considers Dr. Phil (or any other TV personality) to be anything more substantive than brain-dead entertainment.

- Warren

JasonRox

I like that one.