How Do You Transform a (1,2) Tensor?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the transformation rules for a (1,2) tensor, specifically whether the transformation involves additional terms similar to those found in the transformation rules for Christoffel symbols. The scope includes theoretical aspects of tensor transformation and its implications in differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the transformation rule for a (1,2) tensor, proposing a specific formula and inquiring about the necessity of additional terms.
  • Another participant asserts that the transformation rule provided is correct and states that additional terms are only needed when taking derivatives, referencing the Christoffel symbols.
  • A different participant acknowledges the correctness of the transformation rule but emphasizes that the transformation for Christoffel symbols includes an extra term due to their derivative nature.
  • Another participant reiterates that the transformation for tensors does not require the additional term, as it only applies when derivatives are involved.
  • One participant states that tensors transform according to the proposed rule by definition and discusses the implications of taking derivatives from tensors, introducing the concept of covariant derivatives and connection coefficients.
  • Another participant clarifies that the added term in the transformation of Christoffel symbols is due to their non-tensorial nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the transformation rule for a (1,2) tensor requires additional terms. While some agree on the correctness of the initial transformation rule, there is no consensus on the necessity of extra terms related to derivatives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of tensor transformations and the specific conditions under which additional terms may be required, particularly in relation to derivatives and the nature of Christoffel symbols.

franznietzsche
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What is the transform rule for a (1,2) tensor? Is it:

[tex] <br /> T^a{}_{bc} = \bar T^d{}_{ef}\frac{\partial x^a}{\partial \bar x^d}\frac{\partial \bar x^e}{\partial x^b}\frac{\partial \bar x^f}{\partial x^c}<br /> [/tex]

or is there an added term like in the transform rule for Christoffel symbols of the second kind?
 
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Originally posted by franznietzsche

or is there an added term like in the transform rule for Christoffel symbols of the second kind?
this is correct. you only need the Christoffel symbols if you are taking a derivative.
 


Thank you.

Originally posted by lethe
this is correct. you only need the Christoffel symbols if you are taking a derivative.

i know, but that transofrm is the same as the one for the christoffel symbols except the christoffel symbol's transformation rule has the added term:
[tex] \frac{\partial x^i}{\partial x^k}\frac{\partial^2 \bar x^m}{\partial x^j \partial x^k}[/tex]

That is what i was referring to.
 


Originally posted by franznietzsche
Thank you.



i know, but that transofrm is the same as the one for the christoffel symbols except the christoffel symbol's transformation rule has the added term:
[tex] \frac{\partial x^i}{\partial x^k}\frac{\partial^2 \bar x^m}{\partial x^j \partial x^k}[/tex]

That is what i was referring to.
yeah, the Christoffel symbols have an additional term, because they involve taking a derivative.

since you are not, then you do not need the extra term, and the equation you have in the first post is correct.
 
tensors always transform always like you wrote [tex]T^a{}_{bc} = \bar T^d{}_{ef}\frac{\partial x^a}{\partial \bar x^d}\frac{\partial \bar x^e}{\partial x^b}\frac{\partial \bar x^f}{\partial x^c}[/tex]
(by definition)
When you take a normal derivative from a tensor, you don't become a tensor. This is a problem for making diff equations with tensors. Therefor we define a new derivative (covariant derivative)
We becomes this by putting a second term (connection coefficients) by ten partial derivative. In general relativity we take a connection coëfficient we have derived from the metric. This is the Christoffel connection(are symbols)
 
The Christoffel symbols have that added term specifically because the Christoffel symbols are not tensors.
 

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