Where does the bow and arrow come from?

**Panda** · Jan11-07, 09:04 AM

I was wondering about the evolution of ideas and realised that there seems to be no intermediate stages for that simplest of weapons the bow and arrow.

If you have nothing similar to work from building a bow and arrow is quite a complex task.
Does anyone have any thoughts of what were the intermediate stages between man with sticks and string to man with projectile weapon system.

**Evo** · Jan11-07, 10:23 AM

To start, you can check out the links on this page.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ow&btnG=Search

**Astronuc** · Jan11-07, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

I was wondering about the evolution of ideas and realised that there seems to be no intermediate stages for that simplest of weapons the bow and arrow.

If you have nothing similar to work from building a bow and arrow is quite a complex task.
Does anyone have any thoughts of what were the intermediate stages between man with sticks and string to man with projectile weapon system.

Well the indigenous folk in Australia did not develop bow and arrow, but rather used simpler weapons - the boomerang and spear. To improve the range of the spear, they develop a 'throw stick'.

I imagine the boomerang came about because someone just happened to throw a stick and noticed how it behaved and then successively made improvements. Whether successive improvements were by one person or successive generations, I don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang

**arildno** · Jan11-07, 02:34 PM

First, ropes, cords and strings were probably developed independently of any hunting concern.
After all, there are lots of other uses for strings.

That's my view, anyway.

**Panda** · Jan12-07, 03:18 AM

I still can't find a series of logical inventions that create a bow and arrow from other practicle weapons.

If you have a hand axe and club then you make a flint axe. Axe heads flying off during use could give you the idea to use the axe handle to hurl a spear. So I can see a logical evolution of the spear thrower as a compound weapon.

But a bow and arrow uses spears too short to throw and a stick and sinew arrangement that has to be complete before it will work.

Being a rocket scientist I don't know the time lines, but it has just occurred to me that if the bow came after fire then it might be possible that the bow was developed for peaceful fire lighting purposes and then was turned into a weapon, but I'm not sure that all civilisations use bows for fire lighting. A recent programe I saw indicated that acient Britons used the abundent flint and iron pyrate nodules found on the beaches across most of southern England.

**3trQN** · Jan12-07, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Panda

I still can't find a series of logical inventions that create a bow and arrow from other practicle weapons.

Its a simple step from short-spear / throwing arrows. Dutch arrows etc. Increase the power and range by using a bow. The longbow (english Yew wood) was capable of penetrating plate armour at ~350m.

**Panda** · Jan12-07, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by 3trQN

Its a simple step from short-spear / throwing arrows. Dutch arrows etc. Increase the power and range by using a bow.

So you are implying that somebody was successfully throwing short spears and one day decided to get some sinew and a bendy stick and put them together in a manner never seen before on the off chance that it would improve his throw by using a technique totally alien to him.

Originally Posted by 3trQN

The longbow (english Yew wood) was capable of penetrating plate armour at ~350m.

That is slightly off the point, as there is a clear requirement drive and technology advancement between a simple bow and complex composite bow.

Surely there must be some intermediate steps, or some parallel development. not a leap from throwing one handed from the shoulder to firing two handed from the body?

**Astronuc** · Jan13-07, 09:01 AM

The bow seems to have been invented in the late Palaeolithic or early Mesolithic. The oldest indication for its use in Europe comes from the Stellmoor in the Ahrensburg valley north of Hamburg, Germany and date from the late Paleolithic Hamburgian culture (9000–8000 BC). The arrows were made of a pine and consisted of a mainshaft and a 15-20 centimetre (6-8 inches) long foreshaft with a flint point.

Mesolithic arrows have been found in England, Germany, Denmark and Sweden. They were often rather long (up to 120 cm [4 ft]) and made of hazel (Corylus avellana), wayfaring tree (Viburnum lantana) and chokecherry (Cornus alba). Some still have flint arrow-heads preserved; others have blunt wooden ends for hunting birds and small game. The ends show traces of fletching, which was fastened on with birch-tar.

Bows and arrows have been present in Egyptian culture since its predynastic origins. The nine bows symbolise the various peoples that had been ruled over by the pharaoh since Egypt was united.

Most Neolithic bows are made of yew. Ötzi the Iceman found in the Ötztaler Alps carried an unfinished yew longbow, with a bowstring of nettle or flax fibre.

In the Levant, arrow-shaft straighteners are known from the Natufian culture, ca. 12.800–10.300 BP) onwards. The Khiamian and PPN A shouldered Khiam-points are most certainly arrowheads.

Native Americans used longbows (especially on the east coast) and flatbows (especially on the west coast), often recurved, made from various hardwood species, such as hickory. Likewise, the Fenno-Ugrian nations in Eurasia have traditionally used ash, maple or elm flatbows. The bow was a late invention in the Americas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_%28weapon%29#History So bows and arrows have been around a long time. I wonder if bows/arrows could be used to track migration patterns.

Interesting that the Indians of N. America used bow and arrow, but was the development independent from the Eurasian peoples?

http://www.centenaryarchers.gil.com.au/history.htm - "The discovery of the first stone arrowheads in Africa tends to indicate that the bow and arrow were invented there, maybe as early as 50,000 BC."

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/thir...en/history.htm - "From prehistoric times, the bow was a principal weapon of war and of the hunt throughout the world, except in Australia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_archery

**Averagesupernova** · Jan13-07, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

So you are implying that somebody was successfully throwing short spears and one day decided to get some sinew and a bendy stick and put them together in a manner never seen before on the off chance that it would improve his throw by using a technique totally alien to him.

With most inventions the inventor takes ideas seen from various areas of their life and stirs them all together to come up with the end result. Obviously whoever figured out the bow and arrow had seen a bow-like apparatus used elsewhere most likely as a non-weapon. Also, has anyone ever noticed how children are able to stick things together in unimaginable ways? They aren't trying to invent things, they are just playing around. Adults watch these things and may see something in their kids creation that makes total sense to them for some particular task but the kid sees nothing and would prefer to take it apart and make something else out of it. The bow and arrow evolved slowly like anything else does.

**out of whack** · Jan15-07, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Panda

I still can't find a series of logical inventions that create a bow and arrow from other practicle weapons.

Here's a purely speculative scenario.

You can make fire by spinning a stick against another piece of wood until it heats up. Spinning by hand is done by holding the stick between both palms and "rubbing" them back and forth. It works, but it can take a long time for the tip of the stick to get hot enough. Taking the time it takes is not a problem if you're a caveman since there's nothing to watch on TV.

Now, if you have this daily chore and you have access to a rope, you will probably think about this eventually: roll the rope once around the stick and get two people to do a push-pull action. The stick will spin easily and heat up much faster. And now you have also invented family entertainment as well as tug-of-war so you can be sure the technology will be retained for generations.

If you are trained in such high tech but find yourself alone, you will probably think of tying both ends of the rope to another branch with a little bit of tension in it. Now you can move this bow back and forth by yourself and light up you cigar (which is why you're alone in the first place).

Since the bow is a handy fire tool, you will probably hold on to it. Who knows, it may find other uses...

**Panda** · Jan16-07, 03:20 AM

That was the only conclusion I could come up with (Post #5), but what came first the bow or fire? And what became of the British hitting things with rocks method, that I think must me much more efficient as it still the basis for lighters today.

Unless of course it was lets say the French who used the Bows for fire lighting due to a lack of rocks to hit things with, and then imported them into Britain in exchange for cheap DVDs or something.

I think I need an expert in ancient history to tell me when these things turn up in different timelines.

**out of whack** · Jan16-07, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Panda

That was the only conclusion I could come up with (Post #5)

Huh! Surely I must have read what you wrote ("it might be possible that the bow was developed for peaceful fire lighting purposes") but it failed to hit my conscious mind. I'm out of whack, you see. Sorry for my long repeat of your succinct description.

Today something else comes to mind, which always makes my eyes water. One of the natural ways to use rope is to attach both ends to separate objects for various reasons. From this use, I don't think it's a big stroke of luck to notice how the tension can make objects "bounce" and cover some distance. PlayStation-deprived kids would likely discover the slingshot this way. The bow and arrow are a simple evolution from it. Using rope would lead to the bow and arrow quite naturally.

**MeJennifer** · Jan16-07, 11:30 AM

I am surprised that some think there must have been some in-between steps. Occasionally there are people who just invent something totally new. I have no reason to believe that people in the past were less creative than us.

**out of whack** · Jan16-07, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by MeJennifer

I am surprised that some think there must have been some in-between steps.

If you see the same invention created independently by many different groups then you have to suspect some underlying path of discovery. It's not a must but it is a more likely sequence because incremental changes are more common than leaps of creativity. It doesn't preclude creative genius in at least some of these cases either.

**baywax** · Jan16-07, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by MeJennifer

I am surprised that some think there must have been some in-between steps. Occasionally there are people who just invent something totally new. I have no reason to believe that people in the past were less creative than us.

When you see chimps using a piece of straw to extract their dinner from an ant hill, you can see that we're not the only mammals on the planet that are good at inventing tools nor are we the only problem solvers (which entails genius). There are in fact birds that have figured out this extraction method.

**Panda** · Jan17-07, 03:07 AM

I have the oppertunity of doing a mini anthropological study at the moment by having a 5 month old child to watch. You can observe how, seeing every object as a new item, he goes through a series of experimentation to see how best to pick it up, which way it best fits in his mouth. Everything he does he evolves from 1st principles until (In a few weeks or so) his capacity to link new objects with memories of similar objects becomes stronger.
Give an educated adult a set of objects and they use their experience of complex constructions plus their desire to fulfuill a capability gap to create something new, but even then they work from a base of known connections and evolve the idea.
Remove all prior knowledge and I believe they will be reduced to banging rocks together to see what happens.

I challenge anyone to find me an example of an invention within recorded history where there were no in between steps.

There have been some intuitive leaps but usually after a lot of banging transistors together to see what happens.