HARRP: What are the facts?

zoobyshoe

This is a link to a fairly run-of-the-mill fear mongering type article about the dangers of HAARP. Pretty much the kind of stuff you ear on Coast to Coast.

Is anyone up on the real capabilities and limitations of this installation?

HAARP
Address:http://www.pacentro.com/HARRP/harrp.htm

-Zooby

Ivan Seeking

The HAARP Ionospheric Research facility will be a major Arctic facility for conducting upper atmospheric research. The facility will consist of two essential parts:

A high power transmitter and antenna array operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. When complete, the transmitter will be capable of producing up to 3.6 million Watts to an antenna system consisting of 180 crossed dipole antennas arranged as a rectangular, planar array.

A complete and extensive set of scientific instruments for observation of both the background auroral ionosphere and of the effects produced during active research using the transmitter system. Output from these instruments will be combined into an integrated data package which will be available world-wide in near real time over the internet.
During active ionospheric research, the signal generated by the transmitter system is delivered to the antenna array, transmitted in an upward direction, and is partially absorbed, at an altitude between 100 to 350 km (depending on operating frequency), in a small volume a few hundred meters thick and a few tens of kilometers in diameter over the site. The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 microwatts per cm2, tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere. The small effects that are produced, however, can be observed with the sensitive scientific instruments installed at the HAARP facility and these observations can provide new information about the dynamics of plasmas and new insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions.

http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

null

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

Ah you beet me to it[:))]
So much for being able to controll the weather and ability to destroy the mentally capabilites of my enemies [!:)]
(back to the drawing boards [!:)]).

Besides the carefully crafted explanations regarding the capabilities of HAARP I'm fairly certain we can sleep sound tonight. Interesting information on that site though.

dlgoff

Ivan,

...and is partially absorbed, at an altitude between 100 to 350 km

What about the rest? It will be reflected. That's how HF radio signals get transmitted around the world.

Regards

zoobyshoe

Thanks, Ivan.

I think it's interesting that the data is (or was supposed to be) available on the web in near real time. I wonder who can get access to it and how?

The stated purpose of this research facility, though, raises more questions in my mind:

"...and these observations can provide new information about the dynamics of plasmas and new insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions."

It isn't at all clear to me what is so important about this kind of information that it would merit such a large, expensive information gathering set up.

zoobyshoe

Originally posted by null
Ah you beet me to it[:))]
So much for being able to controll the weather and ability to destroy the mentally capabilites of my enemies [!:)]
(back to the drawing boards

Yes, the reason I asked about this is because I'm considering a carrear in Batman-style villainy.
This would be the perfect toy for that. ;)

zoobyshoe

Originally posted by dlgoff
What about the rest? It will be reflected. That's how HF radio signals get transmitted around the world.

Good question.

Norval

Hey Zoob, dlgoff also gave the answer.
Thats alot of signal power going skipping about to and fro.

Wonder about resonating patterning and control, I do.

LURCH

Originally posted by zoobyshoe
Thanks, Ivan.

I think it's interesting that the data is (or was supposed to be) available on the web in near real time. I wonder who can get access to it and how?

The stated purpose of this research facility, though, raises more questions in my mind:

"...and these observations can provide new information about the dynamics of plasmas and new insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions."

It isn't at all clear to me what is so important about this kind of information that it would merit such a large, expensive information gathering set up.

The project was also supposed to hold significant potential in understanding the effects of ionospheric disturbances on communications. Trouble shooting for the multi-billion-dollar/yr global communications industry sounds like a pretty good motive.

Didn't read all the hype on the link in the original post, but they mainly seemed to be "harping" on the environmental impact. But my favorite conspiracy theory about HAARP has always been that the government hopes to find ways to excite the plasma in the ionosphere to a superheated state and possibly even direct it, so that a concentration of superheated plasma can be focussed over a single area. This would be the "Strategic Missile Defense Shield" that the so-called Starwars program was striving towards. If we detect what appears to be an ICBM launch by a hostile country, we just microwave the ionosphere above their launch sites, and the missiles get incinerated while trying to climb out of the atmosphere. Debris falls back down on the agressor.

zoobyshoe

Originally posted by LURCH
The project was also supposed to hold significant potential in understanding the effects of ionospheric disturbances on communications. Trouble shooting for the multi-billion-dollar/yr global communications industry sounds like a pretty good motive.

Indeed it does. This makes more sense to me than plasma study and solar/terrestrial interaction per se.

Ivan Seeking

Originally posted by dlgoff
Ivan,

What about the rest? It will be reflected. That's how HF radio signals get transmitted around the world.

Regards

The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 microwatts per cm2, tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere.

dlgoff

Ivan,

Oh, I don't think it would cause any kind of problem. I was just thinking that the signal might be able to be received around the world. Do you know what frequency they are going to use?

Regards

Averagesupernova

Reflecting in the ionosphere:

Several misinfos have been stated here. Radio wave are not 'reflected' off of the ionosphere. They are refracted, like light in a lens. Yeah, I know it is a nitpicky, but relevant. A radio wave for example at 1 MHZ may not be refracted at all by the ionosphere. It can be absorbed. Also, the higher the frequency, the more difficult it is to refract the signal back to the earth. It is less bent than a lower frequency. Also, the steeper the angle, (straight up being the steepest) the more difficult it is to refract back to the earth. There are several layers in the ionosphere and they all have their own characteristics on different frequencies. There have been books written on the subject. If you are really curious about it, some books can be obtained from the American Radio Relay League. It is an Amateur Radio organization. You may find more info here: http://www.remote.arrl.org/

zoobyshoe

Thanks A.S.

I didn't find that nitpicky at all. It seems an important distinction to me.

What constitutes the different layers of the ionosphere? This is something I wasn't aware of, that there were different layers within it.

What are your thoughts about HAARP? Have you been following what info they're gathering with it?

-Zooby

Averagesupernova

I haven't followed it very closely for a few years. I have a book on it that I picked up about 5 years ago. I believe it is filled with a huge amount of misinformation and gloom and doom predictions. I am sure that there are military motives behind it, but not everything is the huge conspiracy that people seem to believe.

Ivan Seeking

Well, to be fair we get both a reflected and a refracted waves at any boundary layer [differing indices of refraction] where the incident angle is less than then critical angle - beyond which we see total reflection. Also, in the strictest sense there is only absorption [conversion to heat], and absorption followed by emission such that the average yields the familiar laws for reflections and refraction.

Since we are being picky. [:D]

zoobyshoe

I don't find this picky.

Originally posted by Ivan Seeking
Well, to be fair we get both a reflected and a refracted waves at any boundary layer [differing indices of refraction] where the incident angle is less than then critical angle - beyond which we see total reflection.

I take it the critical angle depends on the medium? Any idea what the critical angle for the ionosphere might be?

Also, in the strictest sense there is only absorption [conversion to heat], and absorption followed by emission such that the average yields the familiar laws for reflections and refraction.

Not sure I totally follow. You are saying that all cases of reflection/refraction are in fact absorbtion and re-emission, as opposed to authentic bouncing like a rubber ball off a wall?

Similar Threads for: HARRP: What are the facts?
Thread	Forum	Replies
The Facts Everyone Should Know Test	General Discussion	64
Al Gore's own facts?	Current Events	43
Fun facts	General Discussion	47
Facts About India	General Discussion	98
Fun Facts	General Discussion	45

zoobyshoe	HARRP: What are the facts? Tweet This is a link to a fairly run-of-the-mill fear mongering type article about the dangers of HAARP. Pretty much the kind of stuff you ear on Coast to Coast. Is anyone up on the real capabilities and limitations of this installation? HAARP Address:http://www.pacentro.com/HARRP/harrp.htm -Zooby

Norval	Hey Zoob, dlgoff also gave the answer. Thats alot of signal power going skipping about to and fro. Wonder about resonating patterning and control, I do.

dlgoff Recognitions: Gold Member Science Advisor	Ivan, Oh, I don't think it would cause any kind of problem. I was just thinking that the signal might be able to be received around the world. Do you know what frequency they are going to use? Regards

Averagesupernova	I haven't followed it very closely for a few years. I have a book on it that I picked up about 5 years ago. I believe it is filled with a huge amount of misinformation and gloom and doom predictions. I am sure that there are military motives behind it, but not everything is the huge conspiracy that people seem to believe.