Can human nature truly determine who is a victim?

[olde drunk]

From a purely metaphysical view point, are there really any victims?

Simply, if we get robbed, is it because we over valued the possessions or possibly because the culprit needed them more?

this could also apply to injuries as well, but i think that might be more complicated.

pax,

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by olde drunk
From a purely metaphysical view point, are there really any victims?

Simply, if we get robbed, is it because we over valued the possessions or possibly because the culprit needed them more?

this could also apply to injuries as well, but i think that might be more complicated.

pax,

Then your question might be refrased why does one need to suffer at the cost of the other? Maybe someone needs to lëarn something.

 

[olde drunk]

Originally posted by Rader
Then your question might be refrased why does one need to suffer at the cost of the other? Maybe someone needs to lëarn something.

i suspect that within universal co-operation, both parties agree to experience the event. each for his/her own purpose.

now, does this put a different light on our legal system wherein if i trip on you sidewalk, or you hit my car, i can sue and win damages?? i do not want to absolve the wrong doer, but why collect millions when you spill coffee on yourself??

also, is thisa basis to rethink some of our treatment of criminals?? again, i do not want to excuse a rapist, but, has incarceration proven to be worthwhile??

amazing how interwoven the different layers of reality become when everyday activities are examined.

peace,

 

[Rader]

Originally posted by olde drunk
i suspect that within universal co-operation, both parties agree to experience the event. each for his/her own purpose.

this might be so, even though it is unknown to the users.

now, does this put a different light on our legal system wherein if i trip on you sidewalk, or you hit my car, i can sue and win damages?? i do not want to absolve the wrong doer, but why collect millions when you spill coffee on yourself??

accidents teach lessons maybe a better payback would be accepting the lesson.

also, is thisa basis to rethink some of our treatment of criminals?? again, i do not want to excuse a rapist, but, has incarceration proven to be worthwhile??

a mirror and morals and a camel needs no water.

amazing how interwoven the different layers of reality become when everyday activities are examined.

remove excess and defect and there is no reality.


peace,

 

[The Green Giant]

I don't know, but for younger criminals, I don't think incarceration works. All they do is move into prison for 6 months and learn how to steal a car with a paper clip. They get out and are able to commit more serious, more atrotious acts.

Also, many people do crimes to get into jail:

"I am a bum, no money, food , or shelter. If i steal a car I go to prison, and that gives me the necessities."

Sad but true that can be what happens. But now the problem is what DO you do with criminals.

P.S. sorry for getting a little off topic.

 

[Atrayo]

Hello Olde Drunk,

now, does this put a different light on our legal system wherein if i trip on you sidewalk, or you hit my car, i can sue and win damages?? i do not want to absolve the wrong doer, but why collect millions when you spill coffee on yourself??

also, is thisa basis to rethink some of our treatment of criminals?? again, i do not want to excuse a rapist, but, has incarceration proven to be worthwhile??

amazing how interwoven the different layers of reality become when everyday activities are examined. ---Olde Drunk.

To borrow from the Christian New Testement, as Christ said what is Ceasars you give unto Ceasar, what is God's you give unto God. Ceasar being what is of humanity currently written into laws of society at present. Thankfully the higher standard are the laws of the Universe ( God(s) ), which are perfect. Or further in harmony than any human to date has even reached in contemplation to create.

----------------

Hello Green Giant,

I don't know, but for younger criminals, I don't think incarceration works. All they do is move into prison for 6 months and learn how to steal a car with a paper clip. They get out and are able to commit more serious, more atrotious acts.

Also, many people do crimes to get into jail:

"I am a bum, no money, food , or shelter. If i steal a car I go to prison, and that gives me the necessities."

Sad but true that can be what happens. But now the problem is what DO you do with criminals. ---Green Giant.

Well that is a question facing all of civilization at present. Many of these criminals were either abused in some fashion as victims than during the course of their life, and became the victimizer. Others did not have sufficient access to opportunities to better themselves and those they cared for. So the life of crime was a quick recourse as a lucrative occupation. Then over the course of their lives via greed, lack of morality by being able to get away with it (loss of inhibition). This is how they have become as people, often dangerous to many others.

The solution is to filter out who is reachable and authentic that wants a better opportunity than what they have in the prison system. Besides, filter out those who are addicts of substance abuse and create special facilities for them. Like they have facilities for the criminally mentally disturbed.

Perhaps bring in corporations into the prisons to take those prisoners who are educated in their given vocation. To continue that vocation where able behind prison walls, perhaps earning a wage (incentives) offered by said corporations. Otherwise prisoners are mostly locked up like animals more or less, which to survive in prison many have to de-evolve to remain alive.

 

[pocebokli]

one would have to be really desperate, wanting to go to one of your jails just to get food and water:-)

but i agree with atrayo, although he put it a bit bluntly, it is the complex psychology that determines the behaviour of people. priests and criminals alike. If either of us that are discussing this issue here had a childhood of violence spent in this or that ghetto, we'd have a really really hard time not to behave like other people from the environment where we spent that childhood.

anger is no less strong in us than love, and abuse is as legitimate as help in the world of animal instincts.

it is our civilisation and culture that dictates morality, but it is not so easy to behave like you were told.

let's leave the criminals alone for a moment...

there are wars all the time, even "civilised" countries are not even trying very hard to find a better anwser to solution of global conflicts and to spread their areas of influence, but rather pump their military capabilities to their fullest, being aware that other countries are doing the same to protect their interests.

so countries, globally, are far from "moral". rather very animalish.
just move that to the level of the individuum and you'll have global and individual psychology, it's dependence on our instincts and our helplesness to fully sever the link with our primate mind.

actual morals and ethics cannot be discusses just for themselves, you have to include human nature into the calculation.

you must be aware, that it depends 99% on your environment and thus the development of your mind and body, whether you're going to be a criminal or a do-gooder.

Even mahathma ghandi had the potention for a criminal, as we all have it. it's just that is has been surpressed to some point. the feelings of anger and hate are not as common guests in our houses, as they are in the houses of those who barely have someone to talk to normally.