Is Ergoff's Theorem Vital to Understanding Measure & Integration Theory?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relevance and understanding of measure and integration theory, specifically in relation to Ergoff's theorem. Participants share their experiences with various textbooks and their effectiveness in teaching the subject, as well as their personal feelings towards the material.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express dissatisfaction with the textbooks available for learning measure theory, citing dryness or lack of clarity in their explanations.
  • One participant mentions a specific theorem related to convergence of measurable functions, indicating its non-trivial nature and usefulness.
  • Several recommendations for textbooks are made, including Halmos, Bartle, Royden, and Wheeden and Zygmund, with varying opinions on their effectiveness.
  • There is a discussion about the term "pedantic," with participants clarifying its meaning and its relevance to the discussion of mathematical details.
  • One participant expresses a preference for geometry over analysis, suggesting that their interest in functional analysis was tied to viewing functions geometrically.
  • Another participant acknowledges the importance of minute details in mathematics while also expressing a personal dislike for certain theorems or subjects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that there is a lack of well-written textbooks on measure theory, but they have differing opinions on which texts are the most useful. The discussion reflects a mix of personal preferences and experiences, with no consensus on the best approach to the subject.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various limitations in the textbooks, such as the omission of important results in exercises and the abstract nature of some texts. There is also an acknowledgment of the subjective nature of learning preferences in mathematics.

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What's a well written textbook on this topic? A textbook that has about the same exposition as Munkres Topology.
 
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halmos
 
oh, god! I am taking a class and we are using Friedman. I have never disliked a math course so much. Here is a theorem:

Let X be a finite measure space. If a sequence {f_n} of almost everywhere real-valued, measurable functions converges almost everywhere to an almost everywhere real valued measurable function f, then {f_n} converges to f almost uniformly.

The pendantics astound!
 
What on Earth are pendantics? That theorem is non-trivial and very useful, if you ask me.

I'd recommend Wheeden and Zygmund. The exposition is terse, but they build up from R^n using a geometric approach, which makes life much easier than the standard "outer measure is a set function satisfying the following" approach.
 
The course I took as a student used Bartle's The Elements of Integration, and I quite like it. It has been bundled together with The Elements of Lebesgue Measure and reissued as http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471042226,descCd-tableOfContents.html" .
 
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In my youth i never found a book i could really learn this topic well from. i tried halmos and found it extremely dry and formal. i tried lang's analysis and kind of liked it but still had a very hard time. i tried m.e.munroe but again found it pretty abstract.

as little as i care for rudin's undergrad book, the grad version, real and complex analysis may be better.

my favorite, at least in places, was riesz and nagy.

years ago many people also liked the first chapter of royden, but again i read it and still felt little connection to the material.

more recently some of the experts in my department, who really understand the subject, seem to like wheeden and zygmund.
 
zhentil said:
What on Earth are pendantics? That theorem is non-trivial and very useful, if you ask me.

I'd recommend Wheeden and Zygmund. The exposition is terse, but they build up from R^n using a geometric approach, which makes life much easier than the standard "outer measure is a set function satisfying the following" approach.

pedantic: it is a adjective, and it means to be overly concerned with minute details.

I used the word as a noun which may or may not be "allowed."

I didn't say anything about it being trivial or a waste of paper!
 
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eastside00_99 said:
pedantic: it is a adjective, and it means to be overly concerned with minute details.

I used the word as a noun which may or may not be "allowed."

I didn't say anything about it being trivial or a waste of paper!
Welcome to real mathematics! :-p Minute details matter!
 
I have to agree with mathwonk. There doesn't seem to be any really good measure theory books out there. I've tried sampling a lot of them, and never found one that made me think "Wow, this is really well-written!".

That said, I second George's recommendation of Bartle. Royden is also alright, but I found it annoying that he leaves lots of important results to the exercises (e.g. Egorov's theorem, Lebesgue's criterion for Riemann integrability, etc.). It isn't a great text, but if you read it and do the exercises, you will learn measure theory. It also covers a lot more than Bartle.
 
  • #10
las3rjock said:
Welcome to real mathematics! :-p Minute details matter!

What is fake mathematics? No, I know they matter. I mean this is Ergoff's theorem or something which means it must be important. Its just I prefer geometry to analysis, and have realized that the only reason I liked functional analysis last semester is because I liked considering things like functions as points. Maybe once I take multivariable complex analysis, this stuff will come alive to me. Anyway, I think I am allowed to not like a theorem or a subject no matter how important it is and still be a member of this real mathematics club.
 

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