How Do You Calculate Net Force and Impulse in Physics Problems?

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The discussion revolves around calculating net force and impulse in physics problems, specifically involving the impact of wind on a building and the landing of a person after a jump. The subject area includes concepts from dynamics and kinematics.

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  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the calculation of net force from wind impact and question the implications of the results. There is also discussion on determining impulse from a person's landing, with various interpretations of the kinematic equations involved.

Discussion Status

Participants have offered different perspectives on the calculations needed for both problems. Some have provided insights into the relationships between momentum and impulse, while others are clarifying the definitions and applications of kinematic equations. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of the calculations, particularly regarding the potential for injury in the context of the second problem.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the information required to solve the problems, particularly in relation to the assumptions made about initial velocities and the definitions of impulse. There are also references to additional constraints regarding the time of impact in the context of injury assessment.

wikidrox
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These are two questions that I am having problems with. Here is the first.

1. The air in a 200km/h wind stikes a 30m by 20m face of building at the rate of 5.4 * 10^4 kg/s. Find the net force on the building, assuming the air comes to rest on impact.

Now for this I found the force by mutiplying the velocity by the mass per second. But I don't know where to go from there. Wouldn't the net force just be 0?

2. Calculate the impulse suffered when a 70 kg person lands on firm on the ground after jumping from a height of 5.0m.

I don't think I have enough info to answer this question.
 
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1. Looks to me like the force you calculated is the answer. At first I thought the problem was asking for "pressure" (force divided by area) but that's not the case.
Surely they don't mean "net force" in the sense that "since the wall is not moving, there is no force"- that would make the problem trivial.

2. "Impulse" is change in momentum. You know mass and can calculate the speed just before the the person hits the ground so you can calculate momentum. Since the person comes to a stop, that momentum is the impulse.
 
For number 2 I used the formula Vf^2=Vi^2 + 2ad. I made Vf = 0 since the person comes to rest. and used a = 9.8. From this I got 9.9 m/s as the initial velocity. Does this sound right?
 
sdg

For number 2 I used the formula Vf^2=Vi^2 + 2ad. I made Vf = 0 since the person comes to rest. and used a = 9.8. From this I got 9.9 m/s as the initial velocity. Does this sound right?
 
wikidrox said:
For number 2 I used the formula Vf^2=Vi^2 + 2ad. I made Vf = 0 since the person comes to rest. and used a = 9.8. From this I got 9.9 m/s as the initial velocity. Does this sound right?
You can use that kinematic formula to find how fast the jumper will hit the ground. (Vi = 0, since we assume he jumps starting from rest.) Once you have the the speed as the jumper hits the ground (that's the speed you found), then calculate the impulse that the ground exerts on the person as that person is brought to rest: Δmv
 
what is the kinematic equation? I don't think I have learned that yet, or my course refers to it by a different name.
 
wikidrox said:
what is the kinematic equation? I don't think I have learned that yet, or my course refers to it by a different name.
I was referring to the equation that you used (Vf^2=Vi^2 + 2ad). "Kinematic equations" are just equations that describe motion without regard to the causes of that motion: they relate speed, distance, acceleration, and time.
 
wikidrox said:
For number 2 I used the formula Vf^2=Vi^2 + 2ad. I made Vf = 0 since the person comes to rest. and used a = 9.8. From this I got 9.9 m/s as the initial velocity. Does this sound right?

No, it doesn't sound right! For one thing, the problem didn't ask for the intial velocity! Although the problem says "jump" I think we are expected to assume that the person's initial velocity was 0. The FINAL velocity is NOT 0 since the formula you use is falling under gravity- it isn't gravity that causes him to stop, it is that impulse that you are asked to find.

If a person falls from rest at acceleration 9.8 m/s2 then his speed at time t is 9.8t (I am taking + downward) and the distance fallen is
4.9t2. He will have fallen 5 m (just before he hits the ground) when 4.9t2= 5 or t= 1.01 seconds. At that time his speed will be
9.8(1.01)= 9.90 m/s and his momentum will be 70(9.9)= 693 kg m/s . That's the "impulse suffered".
 
wikidrox said:
1. The air in a 200km/h wind stikes a 30m by 20m face of building at the rate of 5.4 * 10^4 kg/s. Find the net force on the building, assuming the air comes to rest on impact.
Simple conversion of momentum with a catch, you equate each side as a rate of time.
Take your standard formula:

[tex]Ft = m \Delta v[/tex]

Now suppose you don't know what "t" is, just divide it out.

[tex]F = \frac{m}{t} \Delta v[/tex]

You want F, you know what m/t is (5.4 x 10^4 kg/s), and you can calculate what delta v is (convert 200km/h into m/s).



2. Calculate the impulse suffered when a 70 kg person lands on firm on the ground after jumping from a height of 5.0m.

[tex]V_f = V_i + 2ad[/tex]

Vi is 0 so ignore it

[tex]V_f = 2ad[/tex]

Now impulse is just change in momentum (mv).

[tex]P = mv[/tex]

[tex]P = m(2ad)[/tex]
 
Last edited:
  • #10
another ingredient for the mix

We were just giving an extension to the question and it is boggling my mind.
This is an extension from question 2 from my first post.

Determine if the person will suffer a fractured tibia (lower log bone; cross-sectional area of 3.0 cm^2) if the ultimate compressive strength is about 170 * 10^6 N/m^2. The impulse for a stiff-legged landing takes 0.002 s while a bent-legged landing takes 0.05 s.

I don't even know where to begin and where to take it.
 
  • #11
wikidrox said:
Determine if the person will suffer a fractured tibia ...
You've already found the impulse, now you get to use it. Remember that impulse = FΔt, which means that to provide a given impulse the less time the force is applied, the greater the force must be. So figure out the force in each case and see if it's enought to fracture the tibia. As the numbers will show, a stiff-legged landing brings to you a stop much quicker, therefore it creates greater force.
 
  • #12
Alright I got it thanks
 

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