Understanding the capacitor deeply

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    Capacitor
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the behavior of capacitors, specifically addressing the relationship between charge on capacitor plates, the effects of frequency on current, and the implications of changing electric fields. Participants explore theoretical aspects and intuitive understandings related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the charge on both plates of a capacitor must be equal in magnitude, suggesting that the Conservation of Charge Law might explain this relationship.
  • Another participant proposes that the current through a capacitor depends on capacitance and the rate of change of voltage, although they express uncertainty about the influence of frequency on capacitance.
  • A different participant asserts that capacitance is determined by geometrical factors and the permittivity of the insulator, noting that while insulator characteristics may change with frequency, this is not the main focus of the discussion.
  • One participant describes a scenario where injecting electrons into one plate of a capacitor leads to a corresponding movement of charge on the other plate, emphasizing the concept of charge displacement.
  • Concerns are raised about the response time of charges on the capacitor plates at high frequencies, with one participant agreeing that the impedance of the capacitor decreases as frequency increases, suggesting that this may relate to the lag in charge density response.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and intuition regarding the behavior of capacitors, particularly in relation to charge distribution and frequency effects. There is no consensus on the implications of frequency on capacitance or the exact nature of charge response at high frequencies.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of how capacitance might vary with frequency and the complexities of electric field behavior in capacitors.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals studying electrical engineering, physics, or anyone seeking a deeper understanding of capacitor behavior and related electrical concepts.

finenil
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hello every body,
i am trying to understand the capacitor behavior as deeply as i can ...
consider a simple capacitor with two plates A and B

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1- why the charge on both plates are equal in magnitude ?
when we apply a voltage to a capacitor,charge will accumulate on side A.this charge will build an E field which will pass thru the insulator and exert force on the plate B.So charges on plate B move and accumulate together.Ok but how do we know that this E field caused by Charges on plate A will exactly attract the same amount of charge that was on plate A on plate B??
why these two has to be equal ? Conservation of Charge Law ?

2 - why is that the higher the frequency , the more is the current ? is the following intuition wrong ?
when we apply a ac voltage to plate A of a capacitor , charges density on plate A will change with voltage.
when charge density changes , E field caused by them in the Capacitor changes too.
This changing E filed will cause the plate B charge density changing .
Ok but I am thinking that when the E filed is changing very fast(high freq.) the plate B charges may not find enough time to respond to it and move to the new configuration.so the charge density(voltage) on plate B may lag the charge density(voltage) of plate A. So why is that at high freq. the capacitor acts like a short curcuit or the impedance becomes lower?:confused:
 
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simple answer:afaik the current through a capacitor depends only on the capacitance and the rate of change of voltage. (i assume that this is because the total charge stored in the capacitor depends only on the voltage).

more complex answer:i think the capacitance may depend on the frequency though. i don't know anything about that.
 
granpa said:
more complex answer:i think the capacitance may depend on the frequency though. i don't know anything about that.

capacitance depends only on geometrical aspects + the electrical field permitivity of the insulator between the plates.The insulator characteristics may generally change with frequency but that is not our discussion.
 
1.When voltage is applied to the capacitor, positive and negative charges go onto different plates. Say positive charge on plate A and negative one on plate B.

Allright, let's imagine you somehow inject electrons into plate A of the capacitor, these electrons will repel the electrons hidden within the other uncharged plate, right? And these other electrons will be forced out of the B plate of the capacitator. However, if the other capacitor plate isn't connected to anything, then those electrons cannot leave the other plate! They will continue to repel the electrons in plate A, thus very few electrons can be forced into plate A. This means that if charge is injected into capacitor's plate A, then an equal amount of charge is pushed out of the capacitor's plate B.

Anyway, that's kind of the way I understand this, although a little childish it might as well be correct :)

2. " Ok but I am thinking that when the E filed is changing very fast(high freq.) the plate B charges may not find enough time to respond to it and move to the new configuration.so the charge density(voltage) on plate B may lag the charge density(voltage) of plate A. So why is that at high freq. the capacitor acts like a short curcuit or the impedance becomes lower? "
I agree with you. The higher the frequence the smaller is the resistance of the capasitor X=-j/wC (j - complex number) and the explanation you give seems reasonable, I can't really think of anything better.

cheers
 

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