Tangier Island Dialect: A Unique Blend of English and American Influences

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the unique dialect spoken by the residents of Tangier Island, Virginia, exploring its origins and influences from English and American accents. Participants share their experiences and observations regarding the accent, comparing it to various dialects from the UK and Newfoundland.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the Tangier Island dialect may resemble accents from the West Country of England, particularly Devon and Cornwall.
  • Others suggest it sounds similar to Newfoundland accents, with references to "Newfies" being made.
  • A participant mentions that the dialect may have been influenced by Scottish settlers and physical isolation from mainland Virginia.
  • There are claims that the dialect retains archaic features of English, with some words and intonations being reminiscent of older forms of the language.
  • One participant shares a comparison with a Cornish fisherman's accent, suggesting similarities in intonation.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about the specific regional influences, considering Yorkshire as a possibility but ultimately leaning towards West Country origins.
  • Some participants discuss the characteristics of the accent, including the movement of the upper lip while speaking and the vowel sounds.
  • There is mention of a potential mix-up between West Country and West Midlands accents, with clarifications on their distinct features.
  • Concerns about the future of Tangier Island due to environmental changes are also noted.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the exact origins or classification of the Tangier Island dialect, with multiple competing views and interpretations remaining throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on personal experiences and anecdotal evidence, and there are unresolved questions regarding the specific influences and characteristics of the dialect.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in linguistics, dialectology, or the cultural history of American English may find this discussion relevant.

Ouabache
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I was watching some clips on dialects of American English and
ran across a very odd one. Has anyone had experience with the folks
speaking on Tangier Island, Virginia? The people who settled there began
arriving from England in 1670s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZgw09CG9E
Listen to the folks sitting around the shop at 0:39 -0:58 and 1:35 - 2:08

Can you understand what they are saying? Does the accent remind you of one
you've heard before? (where)?
 
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Ouabache said:
I was watching some clips on dialects of American English and
ran across a very odd one. Has anyone had experience with the folks
speaking on Tangier Island, Virginia? The people who settled there began
arriving from England in 1670s.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIZgw09CG9E
Listen to the folks sitting around the shop at 0:39 -0:58 and 1:35 - 2:08

Can you understand what they are saying? Does the accent remind you of one
you've heard before? (where)?

There has been another thread on this, it is most interesting, i would love to talk to these guys.
 
wolram said:
There has been another thread on this...
Actually I had PM'd you about this one, two months ago. You were thinking they sounded possibly, West Country (UK) but not Brummie. A friend from northern Canada told me it sounded like an accent he's heard in New Foundland.
 
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Ouabache said:
Actually I had PM'd you about this one, two months ago. You were thinking they sounded possibly, West Country (UK) but not Brummie. A friend from northern Canada told me it sounded like an accent he's heard in New Foundland.
Yep! When I heard those guys, I thought "Newfies"
 
They don't move their upper lips very much when they speak.
 
turbo-1 said:
Yep! When I heard those guys, I thought "Newfies"
Good call. They do lean in that direction.. here are some Newfies..
it was titled "Another Newfie Discussion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I70kiCR_Pio
 
hypatia said:
They don't move their upper lips very much when they speak.
You're right I didn't notice that before :smile:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I recently spoke with a lady from Otley, Yorkshire, UK. She thought they sounded a bit like West Country (Cornwall).. so I did a little digging.. Here is a Cornish fisherman's accent. See what you think? (voices start around 1:23)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmkQKaSEso
(there seems to be some technical difficulties with new server on embedded youtubes. If embedded video says, no longer available, try the hypertext link I gave above).
 
I wonder what area of England these Tangier Island people came from?
 
Tangiers Island was settled by fishermen from Devon and Cornwall in the late 17th Century prior to the larger emigration from Southern England to the Chesapeake Bay area. I’m from Devon originally and the dialect being spoken definitely sounds like an archaic form of the far southwest England (Devon and Cornwall) accent.

Hope that helps
 
  • #10
wolram said:
There has been another thread on this, it is most interesting, i would love to talk to these guys.
I've got a new lead on those folks Wollie! I just met a Geordie who moved to a town in Somerset. He believes they sound close to a Somerset accent and also confirms they sound like Newfies.. So perhaps some West Country fisherfolk came over to Newfoundland in 1600s and some wandered down the coast to this island in the Chesapeake Bay, Virginia and kept their accents from the 1600s.
 
  • #11
I've been to Newfoundland. They don't talk that funny, they sound irish. Hey Ivan, did you see the Newfy point with his middle finger in the video? Forward to 1:02
 
  • #12
Yes their accent is somewhat weird. Must be the influence from their Scottish settlers way back in the 1600s. Physical isolation from mainland VA could be another factor. They do sound like Newfies because Newfoundland was settled by Scotts as well.
 
  • #14
okay we have another good comparison to an http://sounds.bl.uk/View.aspx?item=021M-C0908X0026XX-0200V1.xml". I found this on the website of the British Library, archive of sound recordings. We have a farmer from Kilkhamton, Cornwall by the name Richard Hurd (born in 1872) and recorded in 1963. Don't be confused by the interviewer who is not from the area. As soon as I heard Richard's second sentence "I was out to service.." I hear the same intonation as the Tangier Islanders. The rest of the clip has more great examples, as he tells his story of tending bullocks & sheep.
 
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  • #15
Sounds like the West Country, around Cornwall or Somerset to me.
 
  • #16
It sounds like the original English language. The words heard are similar, if not the same to those used when England had various dialect in different regions of England all based on English.

There's a word at around 0.50 in the original video that I've heard before but can't quite place it.
 
  • #17
Vagn said:
Sounds like the West Country, around Cornwall or Somerset to me.
That is good corroborative news. I see you are now in northern UK. I wonder, do you know some people down West Country. Did you live near there?
 
  • #18
Ouabache said:
That is good corroborative news. I see you are now in northern UK. I wonder, do you know some people down West Country. Did you live near there?

I live in Wales, which is just North of Cornwall.

Been there a few times and the accent is very similar. But, it still sounds older. Particularly the language used.

Could even be Yorkshire language wise, not sure with the accent.
 
  • #19
Ouabache said:
You were thinking they sounded possibly, West Country (UK) but not Brummie.

Just for info, I think somebody has mixed up two different regions here.

West Country is the extreme south-west of England, i.e. Devon and Cornwall

West Midlands is the region around Birmingham (approximately the center of England) and west to the border with Wales. Brummie is the acccent in the city of Birmingham itself. The region close to Birmingham is also called the Black Country (because of the number of factories built there in the Industrial Revolution).

The accent in the video is west country - nothing like the west midlands accent. The main feature IMO is the extreme difference in length between the very long and very short vowels, and the fact that groups of short syllables are almost run together without the consonants
 
  • #20
jarednjames said:
Could even be Yorkshire language wise, not sure with the accent.

I didn't spot any Yorkshire dialect words (My ancestors are 50% Yorkshire and 50% Lincolnshire).

The Yorks accent is completely different - very "flat" vowel sounds.

Yorkshire dialect is mainly Scandinavian origin (as were the people). 50 years ago it was said that a non-English-speaking Norweedish person and a typical Yorkshire dalesman could understand each other well enough to communicate, without any language lessons.
 
  • #21
AlephZero said:
I didn't spot any Yorkshire dialect words (My ancestors are 50% Yorkshire and 50% Lincolnshire).

The Yorks accent is completely different - very "flat" vowel sounds.

Yorkshire dialect is mainly Scandinavian origin (as were the people). 50 years ago it was said that a non-English-speaking Norweedish person and a typical Yorkshire dalesman could understand each other well enough to communicate, without any language lessons.

Yeah, I didn't think the accent matched Yorkshire.

I've only heard snippets of "olde english" and it varies widely depending where you go.

I stand by my initial guess and agree with you that it's west country.
 
  • #22
I saw a news segment saying that Tangier Island is becoming inundated. They live some 100 miles away, as the dragon flies.
 
  • #23
jarednjames said:
I live in Wales, which is just North of Cornwall.

Been there a few times and the accent is very similar. But, it still sounds older. Particularly the language used.

That is interesting that you live in Wales. I wonder can you speak or understand Welsh?

I have learned, the way English is spoken (pronunciations) in various parts of the UK
is strongly influenced by predecessor languages of those regions
(e.g. Irish, Scots Gaelic, Welsh, Breton etc..)
In the case of Cornwall. The predecessor language was Cornish.
Here is a fellow reportedly speaking Cornish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jbxdZE3g80

(if that link does not embed properly, here is the direct
link:

From what I am reading, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language" is one of the Celtic languages more closely related
to Welsh than to Irish or Scots Gaelic.
(It shares 75% basic vocabulary with Welsh).

I can hear some of the same inflections heard in the Tangier Island, English pronunciations.
 
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  • #24
Ouabache said:
That is interesting that you live in Wales. I wonder can you speak or understand Welsh?

Bits and pieces, I can understand more than I can speak.

But for the purpose of everyday life (people have a thing with "do you speak Welsh?"), the answer is no. Otherwise they expect you to churn out spools of it.

If anyone finds themselves in that situation, it's best to just start spitting and clearing your throat and claim it's Shakespeare.
In the case of Cornwall. The predecessor language was Cornish.
Here is a fellow reportedly speaking Cornish

From what I am reading, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language" is one of the Celtic languages more closely related
to Welsh than to Irish or Scots Gaelic.
(It shares 75% basic vocabulary with Welsh).

From what I can hear, this snippet is not that similar to Welsh. However, I can't hear him properly so I can't guarantee what I thought he was saying.

His accent doesn't sound 'west country' to me though, it's lacking that 'farmer' quality (that would be my own description of the accent). I've been to Bristol a few times and the accent there was bang on what I'm hearing in the Tangier's video. Same area, but like I say, can't hear the video properly so could just be me.
 
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  • #25
I live close to this island and know many people who live/lived there and have visited the island many times. The island was first explored by John Smith in 1608 and they actually say that what they speak is a form of an older English dialect. Many of the things they say are backwards. For instance if it is sunny outside and calm waters they will say that it is not a nice day outside when in reality it is actually a gorgeous day outside. Hope this helps!
 
  • #26
FieldHockey said:
I live close to this island and know many people who live/lived there and have visited the island many times. The island was first explored by John Smith in 1608 and they actually say that what they speak is a form of an older English dialect. Many of the things they say are backwards. For instance if it is sunny outside and calm waters they will say that it is not a nice day outside when in reality it is actually a gorgeous day outside. Hope this helps!
I just read a novel called "Isle of Dogs", much of which concerns Tangier. The book is a comedy, so things are exaggerated, but she explains the whole "talking backward" thing, which is pretty interesting. The author says there'll be a gesture to the left, usually with the head, to indicate when they're "talking backward". When the speaker can't be seen, as at night, or on the phone, they'll end their backward talk with the phrase, "to the left". So, "It's a gorgeous, sunny day! To the left," would mean the weather's miserable out. The whole thing was a useful code to befuddle outsiders back in the day.
 
  • #27
I don't study accents, so my ear may be less able to distinguish one accent from another than yours, but their accents remind me of those of some of my (older) relatives from the Appalachian Mountains of Western North Carolina. Especially in how they are lazy with pronouncing everything and elongate some syllables.
 
  • #28
It's cold today in Virginia -- knot!
 
  • #29
I'm a Newfoundlander and is does resemble some Newfoundland dialects (particularly those around the South to Southwest coast) where people immigrated from Somerset and Bristol among other areas. Although, it does have that American twang in there. I have to listen pretty hard to pick out what they are saying. People on islands like Newfoundland and Tangier have been able to retain some of the olde/orginal English language due to isolation. Although I can tell you that in recent (20) years, in Newfoundland, it has been fading.
If you have been to Newfoundland and everyone sounds "kinda Irish", then perhaps you have not traveled outside the greater capital area/St. John's where the majority of folks did migrate from Southeast Ireland. Newfoundland is full of distinctively sounding and rich dialects.
Of course, you have to keep in mind sociolinguistics whereby people of deep sea fishing outports and communities somehow seem to share parts of their language or more correctly the rhythm of speech.

Hope this helps. So glad I came across this thread. :cool:
 
  • #30
Anyway, it is UGLY, like the horrid dialects we have around Trondheim, Stavanger (Randaberg in particular), and most of the Eastern Fold' dialects.
Dreadful dialects, dreadful people.