How can images dimention be larger than the domains?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of constructing continuous functions from a one-dimensional domain to higher-dimensional spaces, specifically how such functions can have images that exceed the dimensionality of their domains. The scope includes theoretical aspects of topology and the properties of space-filling curves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the existence of a continuous function from [0,1] to R^n that can fill a ball, noting the lack of examples or proofs in their topology book.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of space-filling curves, suggesting that these curves are constructed using fractal-style algorithms that converge to fill the space as iterations increase.
  • It is noted that such functions are not differentiable at any point, indicating their complexity and "nasty" nature.
  • A participant references the Peano curve as an example of such a function, suggesting that while the construction is complex, it can be generalized once understood for n=2.
  • Another participant describes a method of constructing a space-filling curve by subdividing a square and connecting centers, explaining that this process leads to a curve that densely fills the square.
  • A recommendation is made for a book titled "Geometry and the Imagination" by Hilbert and Cohn-Vossen, which discusses these concepts in an accessible manner.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various viewpoints on the construction of space-filling curves and their properties, but there is no consensus on the ease of understanding or the implications of these functions. The discussion remains exploratory with multiple competing ideas.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of continuous functions and the nature of space-filling curves, but these assumptions are not universally accepted or resolved among participants.

vadik
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I'm lost! My book of topology says that its possible to construct a (continuous!) function f:[0,1] -> R^n such that the image is
a ball {x: |x|<=1}
I can't imagine how is it any possible to do such things. The book doesn't give any example or prove of it. It's just a comment. Any ideas? I can't solve this even for n=2.
 
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Those are space-filling curves.

Constructing them usually involves creating a curve with a fractal-style algorithm and showing that as the number of iterations goes to infinity you get a continuous curve that fills the entire space.
 
It is, of course, a function that is not differentiable at any point so it is really nasty!
 
HallsofIvy said:
It is, of course, a function that is not differentiable at any point so it is really nasty!
I liked it when I first saw that stuff! Perhaps that makes me a nasty guy :devil:

Vadik, do a google search on "Peano curve"; those examples request at least a page of calculation, too big to post it in here. But thank god once you've done it for n=2 other examples can easily be made up.

What these functions show is that you can parameterize higher-dimensional manifolds with one parameter - but never in a homeomorphic way.
 
this was also thought impossible by mathematicians of the 19th century until peano i guess showed otherwise.

to start just subdivide a square into 4 parts and conect the centers of the 4 quarters.

then subdivide each quarter further into quarters, i.e. 16ths of the original square and connect the centers of all 16 small squares.


continue like this and you will have as a limit a curve that passes through a dense set of points of your square. but since the image of the curve is closed, it will pass through every point of the square!


a good (make that great) book discussing this, and many other wonderful things, is hilbert and cohn vossen, geometry and the imagination, written for the general public!
 

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